The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 26 Aug 1999
to 27 Aug 1999
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:00:01 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 26 Aug 1999 to 27 Aug 1999
There are 10 messages totalling 560 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Salida to back.
2. Fwd: Joe nice comments !
3. Tulsa, Oklahoma?????
4. NYC Benefit Milonga Sept. 1 for Earthquake Survivors
5. Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather" (4)
6. Light as a Feather!
7. Posting to Tango-L vs. private messages
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:16:21 +0000
From: Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Salida to back.
Richard T. Simoni, Sr. writes
> Nature will step in to correct beginners' use of the back step to
> begin the dance.
Melinda Bates replies
> Oh Richard, you are so optimistic! ....
I have to agree with Melinda on this. I've been doing tango for almost
11 years now, & I've not seen a lot of people learn to handle to the
backstep properly. This includes not just the senile & stupid. One of
the worst offenders is a PhD, another is a heart surgeon, a third is
long-time tango teacher & choreographer. And in the last year several
teachers have taught patterns that include not one, not two, but THREE
back steps.
On one thing I have to disagree with Melinda.
> ...the leaders, while apologetic, all act as if it were an
> unavoidable accident...
More often they look at the people they hurt with anger -- as if the
victims were at fault.
On this I have to disagree with "Joe Camper." Melinda is not insulting
tango men, just telling the truth. And I certainly don't feel insulted
nor should all the leaders who DO care for the people around them.
__________________________________________________________________
To talk about the issue & not the personalities involved in this
discussion: There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the back step
itself -- only in MISUSING it.
In country & western dancing often the men dance backwards more than
the women, & there are almost no collisions. Why? Because tradition
supports men doing back steps. Ways to be safe have evolved.
Men look before they take a back step.
Men do a half turn before doing back steps so that "backward" is
along the line of dance.
They follow the line of dance, including the convention of moving
closer to the center of the floor for slow or stationary figures.
They do a fair amount of turning steps so that they have a 360
degree image of the floor at all times.
Women are more involved in the dance. If they see danger they let
their partner know -- & tradition supports this so the men don't
get angry.
This issue has nothing to do with men being smart. It's about most
tango dancers learning from show dancers, not social dancers. And
about the lack of a true social dance tradition (at least outside of
Argentina).
Larry de Los Angeles
http://home.att.net/~larrydla
___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:40:34 EDT
From: Dario Mendiguren <C21DARI @AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Joe nice comments !
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Dear Joe and List:
I've been reading your comments and I'm foreseeing something wrong on them,
Do you dance Tango and/or use some of your posted comments to discharge a
hidden or expressed aggressiveness on you??!!
Most of your comments are charged of it, and I don't know if you realize it
but they are offensive for the reader in general
Nothing what you have post so far on the list reads in a positive manner
It shows when you criticize Melinda (a sweet and down to earth dancer) as
follow
"Maybe you've been kicked in the head and don't know it!
After hearing you repeatedly insult the men in your Tango community, I
wouldn't be surprised to hear that they do it on purpose to avoid having to
dance with "tangerauna"....."
or you criticize Daniela and Suzana (excellent dancers)
"I agree with Larry that Suzana Miller is 100% worse than Daniela. Suzana
can barely move on the dance floor by herself, let alone being led. She has
not changed whatsoever....."
Dear Joe get real!! who are we to make such offensive comments, are we the
real
compadritos and milongueros walking in the streets of Mataderos o del Bajo
"there were go those who have their faith lost" ( close to "Paseo Colon")
I guess neither of them (los compadritos and y los verdaderos milongueros)
would make such comments, farther than that they would respect and defend
women in public (even sometimes risking their own life as the compadritos
used to do there for the 1900's)
Dear Joe please tell us some of your nice tango experiences, Have you ever
been in BA ?? Have you been there lately ? How was it che?
Tell us your good ones che !!!!
Un placer !!! and thank you Dario
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Return-path: C21DARI @aol.com
From: C21DARI @aol.com
Full-name: C21DARI
Message-ID: <8517ff8c.24f68f3f @aol.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:38:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
To: joe.camper @JUSTICEMAIL.COM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21
Dear Joe and List:
I've been reading your comments and I'm foreseeing something wrong on them,
Do you dance Tango and/or use some of your posted comments to discharge a
hidden or expressed aggressiveness on you??!!
Most of your comments are charged of it, and I don't know if you realize it
but they are offensive for the reader in general
Nothing what you have post so far on the list reads in a positive manner
It shows when you criticize Melinda (a sweet and down to earth dancer) as
follow
"Maybe you've been kicked in the head and don't know it!
After hearing you repeatedly insult the men in your Tango community, I
wouldn't be surprised to hear that they do it on purpose to avoid having to
dance with "tangerauna"....."
or you criticize Daniela and Suzana (excellent dancers)
"I agree with Larry that Suzana Miller is 100% worse than Daniela. Suzana can
barely move on the dance floor by herself, let alone being led. She has not
changed whatsoever....."
Dear Joe get real!! who are we to make such offensive comments, are we the
real
compadritos and milongueros walking in the streets of Mataderos o del Bajo
"there were go those who have their faith lost" ( close to "Paseo Colon")
I guess neither of them (los compadritos and y los verdaderos milongueros)
would make such comments, farther than that they would respect and defend
women in public (even sometimes risking their own life as the compadritos
used to do there for the 1900's)
Dear Joe please tell us some of your nice tango experiences, Have you ever
been in BA ?? Have you been there lately ? How was it che?
Tell us your good ones che !!!!
Un placer !!! and thank you Dario
--part1_4c1ad4de.24f68fc2_boundary--
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:24:55 -0500
From: Karen Whitesell <kglass @IPA.NET>
Subject: Tulsa, Oklahoma?????
Anyone out there listening from Tulsa? Please contact me. Karen
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:07:49 -0400
From: Richard Lipkin <ezie @EROLS.COM>
Subject: NYC Benefit Milonga Sept. 1 for Earthquake Survivors
Please come dance with us in a very special event! Many voices in New
York's Argentine tango community invite you to participate in a special
milonga:
"Un Baile a Beneficio"
A Milonga to Benefit the Survivors of the Earthquake in Turkey
This WEDNESDAY, September 1 9:30-12:30
at Dance Manhattan
39 West 19th Street
5th floor
between 5th and 6th Avenues
212-807-0802
Special performances around 11
Admission: $20
For more information on the event check the web page:
http://www.dance-manhattan.com/BaileBeneficio.htm
Dance Manhattan has graciously donated its spacious dance floor for the
evening.
with questions, suggestions, or to volunteer to help, call Rebecca
Shulman at 212-358-8857.
Richard Lipkin
http://www.erols.com/ezie
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:00:54 -0400
From: Stella Robinson <stella_robinson @EMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
Please stop this monopolization of the Tango-L, Melinda.
Your "funny" one-liners and other "beloved" messages should be sent in
private. Obviously, you can't stand it if you are not in the middle of every
discussion.
Dear List Moderator!
What are the Tango-L rules for, if nobody obides by them?
Many thanks,
Stella.
Original Message------
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Sent: August 25, 1999 11:36:12 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
Joe,
Some of us were hoping you and "Tina Hart" would get together, since you are
clearly birds of a feather, and leave the rest of us alone. The only down
side (which I offered to the discussion) was the horriffic possibility that
you would reproduce......
That scared us all.
Melinda
Original Message -----
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICEMAIL.COM>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
> Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
>
> "Oh Richard, you are so optimistic! Where I dance the same people do the
same thing over and over. I have been kicked and stabbed in the foot, and
the leaders, while apologetic, all act as if it were an unavoidable
> accident..... "
> Maybe you've been kicked in the head and don't know it!
> After hearing you repeatedly insult the men in your Tango community, I
wouldn't be surprised to hear that they do it on purpose to avoid having to
dance with "tangerauna".
>
> Melinda wrote: "Metin used to make us dance around the perimeter of the
room by filling the center of the space with chairs so we could NOT drift
into it."
> Next time the "heels first" advocate will recommend for men to have the
left heel of their shoes higher than the right one - this will counteract
the centrifugal force.
>
> Re: "light like a feather":
> Larry de Los Angeles "http://home.att.net/~larrydla" wrote: "Daniela
often dances apilado style, & she does it well, leaning a little but
supporting all but a bit of her weight. Susana Miller, on the other hand,
who teaches that style, leans very heavily, so much that I found it painful
when she was here two or three years ago. (Has she changed since then, or
does she still do it?).
>
> I agree with Larry that Suzana Miller is 100% worse than Daniela. Suzana
can barely move on the dance floor by herself, let alone being led. She has
not changed whatsoever.
>
> Joe "not Pepito" Camper.
>
>
> Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and
legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at
http://www.justicemail.com
>
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:03:52 -0400
From: Laura Stevens <laura.stevens @CANOEMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
Well, some of us are hoping that the List Moderator will stop this nonsense from Melinda Bates - she breaks so many rules of the Tango-L! She sends one-liners, off-subject comments, and she is very accomplished at personal attacks.
Will you leave us (999+ subscribers)alone, Melinda?
Muchas gracias,
Laura Stevens.
___________________________________________________________________
Sign up today for your Free E-mail at http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:56:33 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
Dear Stella and Laura,
I'd much rather discuss tango, but, unfortunately, the moderator allowed
Joe's ad hominum attack on me "were you kicked in the head" as well as
Tina's "were you born brain dead or just got that way?" to be posted to the
list, so I believe it was appropriate for me to respond. How come you
weren't offended by THEIR attacks on me? I did not start the insults and
I'm not the one calling people names. I just sent a message responding to
Richard about the dreaded back step, and see what came my way....
I'm most grateful for the messages of support I received - thanks very much
to all of you. Now, can we go back to tango?
Melinda
Original Message -----
From: Stella Robinson <stella_robinson @EMAIL.COM>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
> Please stop this monopolization of the Tango-L, Melinda.
> Your "funny" one-liners and other "beloved" messages should be sent in
> private. Obviously, you can't stand it if you are not in the middle of
every
> discussion.
> Dear List Moderator!
> What are the Tango-L rules for, if nobody obides by them?
> Many thanks,
> Stella.
>
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
> To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Sent: August 25, 1999 11:36:12 PM GMT
> Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
>
>
> Joe,
>
> Some of us were hoping you and "Tina Hart" would get together, since you
are
> clearly birds of a feather, and leave the rest of us alone. The only down
> side (which I offered to the discussion) was the horriffic possibility
that
> you would reproduce......
> That scared us all.
>
> Melinda
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICEMAIL.COM>
> To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
>
>
> > Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
> >
> > "Oh Richard, you are so optimistic! Where I dance the same people do
the
> same thing over and over. I have been kicked and stabbed in the foot, and
> the leaders, while apologetic, all act as if it were an unavoidable
> > accident..... "
> > Maybe you've been kicked in the head and don't know it!
> > After hearing you repeatedly insult the men in your Tango community, I
> wouldn't be surprised to hear that they do it on purpose to avoid having
to
> dance with "tangerauna".
> >
> > Melinda wrote: "Metin used to make us dance around the perimeter of the
> room by filling the center of the space with chairs so we could NOT drift
> into it."
> > Next time the "heels first" advocate will recommend for men to have the
> left heel of their shoes higher than the right one - this will counteract
> the centrifugal force.
> >
> > Re: "light like a feather":
> > Larry de Los Angeles "http://home.att.net/~larrydla" wrote: "Daniela
> often dances apilado style, & she does it well, leaning a little but
> supporting all but a bit of her weight. Susana Miller, on the other hand,
> who teaches that style, leans very heavily, so much that I found it
painful
> when she was here two or three years ago. (Has she changed since then, or
> does she still do it?).
> >
> > I agree with Larry that Suzana Miller is 100% worse than Daniela. Suzana
> can barely move on the dance floor by herself, let alone being led. She
has
> not changed whatsoever.
> >
> > Joe "not Pepito" Camper.
> >
> >
> > Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide,
and
> legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at
> http://www.justicemail.com
> >
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:21:57 EDT
From: Cherie Magnus <MACFroggy @AOL.COM>
Subject: Light as a Feather!
Hello, List
Here are some comments on this hot topic from my friend Kevin, who knows what
he's talking about:
<<Joe Camper wrote:
>
> "..., that you wonder why any man want to dance with
> a
> woman who leans on her partner the way she does.">>
Why? Pleasure!
With many women, Joe may have a point. It is truly
demanding to lead a partner who improvises her own
steps, regardless of my lead. Heavy is a woman who
has no balance and is lethargic in her movements.
This is not Ms. Arcuri.
When she chooses to accept an invitiation to dance,
I am inspired to take up the resposibility of leading
her and protecting her on a crowded dance floor. I
am happy to be entrusted with that privelege.
With Ms. Arcuri in my arms, leaning as she does, I
can relax and enjoy the music and the dance. She brings
her precise and graceful talent to every tango she
dances. I contribute my humble lead and the few
steps and figures I know, while she contributes her
intensity, her balance, her technique and even her
awareness of my balance and position in the line of
dance. The result is an effortless and delightful
state of tango bliss.
She has never been heavy.
Kevin Cathey>>
Best,
Cherie
"One size does NOT fit all!"
http://www.viveladifference.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:09:05 -0400
From: Laura Stevens <laura.stevens @CANOEMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Salida to back & Re: "light like a feather"
There she goes again.
Melinda, there was never a posting from anybody, including Tina Hart,
that you are quoting ("brain dead"). For all we know, you either edited Tina's private message to you and then made her look bad by forwarding your version to the list, or worse yet, you may have fabricated the whole thing, just to stay in the center of attention.
No, Melinda, you are not brain dead. You are sick. The desease you have is called "clintonitis". Obviously you got it from your place of work - Clinton's White House. The most obvious symptom is lying and doing anything else possible to be the topic of everyone's conversation.
Get yourself some help, Melinda! Go see a psychiatrist.
You can't go back to Tango even if you wanted to. No man in his right mind will want to have anything to do with you.
Adios, Melinda.
Laura Stevens.
___________________________________________________________________
Sign up today for your Free E-mail at http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:31:18 -0400
From: Jorge Navarro <jorge @XMAIL.COM>
Subject: Posting to Tango-L vs. private messages
Since I don't remember receiving any messages from Tina Hart abount
Melinda's brain non-functioning, I must conclude that Melinda has made it all up.
Thus, I recommend that nobody risks sending Melinda private messages, just post it to the Tango-L.
Regards,
Jorge.
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 26 Aug 1999 to 27 Aug 1999
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