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Digest from 17 Aug 1999
to 18 Aug 1999
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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 03:00:03 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 17 Aug 1999 to 18 Aug 1999
There are 7 messages totalling 479 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Earthquake in Turkey
2. The Physics of Dance
3. Tango CDs on the Internet
4. Thanks
5. Fw: Re: Re: "Tangringo" humor & Flabella's shoes
6. Tango CDs on the Internet -Reply
7. "light like a feather"
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 04:13:39 PDT
From: Eva Varon <e_varon_m @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Earthquake in Turkey
Dear Tango list,
I know this has nothing to do about tango but this is very important for us.
We had a big shock by the earthquake we felt suddenly in 3 Am in the
morning by Aug 17.
It has effected a large area including Marmara and Aegean parts; Istanbul,
Balikesir, Izmit, Bolu, Ankara, Denizli.
I and my family thanks god that we did not get any injury but it lasted
for 30- 45 seconds. The first thing we did was to wake up check eachother
if anyone was ok and then to rush out.
It is said that this one was very similar to the one once happenede in
Adana which is in Mediterarnen part of Turkey. And also once in Erzurum in
the Blacksea part which was resulted with a very big castastrophy.
I think most injury has happened in Izmit the gulf which is the center of
the event and Avcilar which is in the European side of Istanbul.
Buildings has been ruined but fortunately not many people died.
Here in our region people slept in cars after the quake. We felt at least
five more quakes following the main one. Electricity was gone which is
automatically cut off by the main transformator I think it is very good
precaution to prevent any fire. Because In Tupras which is a plant of gas
has got fire.
We got the news from the walkman. We were not able use our cellular phones
Just a few minutes after the quake. I think in some places there happened
also a shortage of water too.
It was really very scary.
But thanks god that we are ok at the moment. There hs been an announcement
in the broadcast that we should not get into buildings for 24 hourse
following the event. And ofcourse multinational companies did not let the
employees go in for a precaution for today.
Best Regards
Eva Varon
PS: We are allright now, I gues you can get any information from your
broadcast news. We are going to heva rescue groups and fund allocated. And
It
is said that Japan, France, Switzerland will contribute any help.
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:21:16 -0400
From: Nitin Kibe <NKibe @IFC.ORG>
Subject: The Physics of Dance
Greetings, List.
To add to the recent exchanges on analytic approaches to the tango, I read this
interesting book by Kenneth Laws, The Physics of Dance. Kenneth is a professor
of physics who used to take his daughter to her ballet class and while waiting
and watching her, felt that ballet movements could be better analysed,
explained and understood in terms of the underlying principles of movement in
physics (axis, point of support, centre of gravity, moments of inertia, angular
velocity, etc etc). I am no expert, but argentine tango does seem to have many
movements which are similar to those in ballet.
For the physics specialist, the book has appendices with differential equations
and supporting analytics. For the rest of us, there are very clear qualitative
explanations with photographs and line diagrams. It's possible that those with
formal dance training at universities know all this, but for the average lay
person, coming to arg tango later in life, the book is most useful in terms of
improving one's understanding.
Most argentine tango teachers, even (or particularly) the old guard from Bs As,
are able to show how one way of doing things intuitively feels better, more
correct, than others. Few are able to explain it in terms of the underlying
principles, which would allow the student to extend the logic to new steps or
movements.
This particular title is out of print (I got my copy through an inter-library
loan), but Kenneth has written other and similar books which are in print
(reminds me of the literary put down of Desmond Morris, he of Naked Ape fame: He
wrote the same book every few years).
Good wishes to all.
Nitin Kibe
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:35:30 EDT
From: Victor Crichton <victor_vsc @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango CDs on the Internet
Two of my favorite sources for Tango CDs on the internet have vanished. I
hope this is only temporary.
A couple of months ago Zivals.com went down and posted an 'under
construction' page. It had a date listed of when it would return. This
date was updated when things took longer than expected but even that date
has passed and no new news has been heard.
I also was very impressed with the selection at Faro.com but have lost my
link to it and can't seem to get it to come up on any searches.
When I was in Buenos Aires earlier this year, I tried to bring back way to
many CDs. I'd rather avoid repeating that experience and spread my
purchases throughout the year by shopping the internet.
If anyone has any information on these two web-sites I would really
appreciate hearing from you. Also, if you know of any other dependable
on-line CD outlets that have a good selection and reasonable prices, I would
be interested in those as well.
Thanks for any possible assistance,
Victor Crichton
Tampa, Florida
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:08:42 PDT
From: Eva Varon <e_varon_m @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Thanks
Thank you for all your sensitivity.
I guess there may be formed a found for the needy and the homeless people in
Izmit, Golcuk, and gulf in Izmit.
There are now a few rescue teams coming from Switzerland, Germany Israel and
US. I hope that everything is gonna be ok.
Planes are said to be on their way to distinguish the fire in Tupras which
causes the highway of E-5 very dangerous. It couldn got under control
somehow. And now }t is more dangerous than the quake already.
There are still many people under the ruined parts of the houses rescue
teams were not enough in numbers to get them out at once. It is harder for
them then it is for us. We felt it but they actually still live the event as
post-quake under the ruins and beside Tupras fire.
God help them, God help us
Thanks for any help.
Best Regards
Eva
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:13:29 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Fw: Re: Re: "Tangringo" humor & Flabella's shoes
Dear List,
I am sorry to send this message of peripheral value to tango, but have been
forced to by learning that the person called "Tina" has taken my message to
her/him (below), massively edited it to change the meaning, and sent it to
others on this list. Since I have no way of knowing who received her false
message, I am sending the original. You may judge my message for yourself.
You can see I sent it privately, as I thought these comments were not useful
to the list as a whole. I hope I don't have to send out her subsequent
message in which she attacked me as "brain dead" for disagreeing with her.
To reiterate, any message "Tina" sent as coming from me is a lie. I'm happy
to speak for myself and defend my opinions, and I welcome disagreement if it
helps us examine an issue more closely. And I don't insult those I
correspond with.
Melinda
Original Message -----
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @earthlink.net>
To: tina <tinatango @iamyours.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 1999 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: "Tangringo" humor & Flabella's shoes
> Dear Tina,
>
> I have never met or talked to Alberto other than on this list. Sometimes
> I'm astonished at the vehemence of his opinions, and at least once he has
> taken something I wrote as meant to insult him (it wasn't). Still, I
> respect the knowledge and insight (and passion) he brings to tango.
>
> Nevertheless, if I recall correctly, the person YOU flamed was not
Alberto,
> but Walter, who is not masquerading as anyone, and who was defended
publicly
> by someone in his tango community as being a man of generous and kind
> spirit, who has done a lot for the dance. I just thought:
> 1) Your question WAS silly and
> 2) You sure got bent out of shape when it was pointed out (with some
humor)
>
> As for Alberto's response to you, apparently it has to be put in the
context
> of the attacks he describes in his own post. If all that were happening
to
> me, I'd likely respond pretty emphatically to one more such post, from an
> identifiable source. I think Pepito's posting makes it clear he is who he
> is, and that is NOT Alberto.
>
> My suggestion to you is if you can't tolerate someone disagreeing with you
> without insulting them as response, it will be difficult for people on
this
> list to take your opinions seriously.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Melinda
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tina <tinatango @iamyours.com>
> To: <tangerauna @earthlink.net>
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 1999 10:00 PM
> Subject: RE: Re: Re: "Tangringo" humor & Flabella's shoes
>
>
> > Melinda:
> >
> > Are you a friend of Alberto Paz?
> >
> > Here's one of the 18 messages that I've received in the last few days -
> all
> > supporting me:
> >
> > "As soon as I read the first message from "Pepito" I concluded that "he"
> > was Alberto Paz & his partner Valorie. The sentence structure, choice of
> > words, choice of images, topics, ways of arguing ... it was like wearing
a
> > blindfold & hearing a familiar voice (or duet) -- instant recognition.
And
> > from time to time I hear this same voice on TANGO-L, over different
> > signatures.
> >
> > I didn't bring this up in TANGO-L because (1) most of us recognize
what's
> > going on & (2) getting into an online argument like this just gives the
> > perpetrators of such fraud publicity.
> >
> > Don't let any flames bother you."
> >
> > They won't and you won't, Melinda.
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> > Tina Hart.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Original Message
> > From: "Melinda Bates"<tangerauna @earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: Re: "Tangringo" humor & Flabella's shoes
> > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:52:43 -0400
> >
> > >HIS comment was funny. Yours is unnecessarily rude. Why get so
> exercised?
> > >No one ever laugh at your remarks before? It happens to most adults,
and
> > we
> > >grin and go on......
> > >
> > >Get a grip. Melinda
> > >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________
> > Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
> > http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
> >
> >
>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:10:14 -0700
From: Lance Brady <LAB1 @CI.BERKELEY.CA.US>
Subject: Tango CDs on the Internet -Reply
Victor wrote:
>>> Victor Crichton <victor_vsc @HOTMAIL.COM> 08/17/99 10:35am >>>
Two of my favorite sources for Tango CDs on the internet have
vanished. I hope this is only temporary.
A couple of months ago Zivals.com went down and posted an 'under
construction' page. .....
I also was very impressed with the selection at Faro.com but have lost
my link to it and can't seem to get it to come up on any searches.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Victor and List:
I've been wanting to ask the list about CD's on the web as well.
I'm fortunate to live somewhere where all kinds of music are available at
competetive prices. One of my local favorites is Down Home Music in El
Cerrito, CA. Their staff are very knowlegable about all kinds of music
from all over the world, they've been doing a catalog and special order
business for many years and they have a web site:
http://downhomemusic.com/mainpage.html
In the back of their store is the famous Arhoolie Records. Check out their
history article.
http://www.arhoolie.com/
Robert Lever, former owner of Round World Music store in San
Francisco, is now working for Amoeba. He's in the Berkeley store on
Tuesdays. If it's music from this planet, Robert can find it. (He makes a
brief appearance in Genghis Blues, an amazing new documentary film
about Tuvan throat singing.) Amoeba's web site:
http://www.amoebamusic.com/
I don't know if they do special orders and mail orders.
Then there's Rasputin's. They have as good an international and Latin
section as Amoeba up the street but they don't have a web site that I can
find:
Rasputin's Records, 2401 Telegraph Ave., Berkeley, CA 94074, (510)
848-9005, fax: (510) 848-2308
Now, I've been out there searching for stuff on the web. There are a
couple sites that sell tango music based here in the US but they seem to
me to be way expensive plus shipping. The import record labels they
carry are the same ones that I pay $12 to $15 for at the above brick and
morters plus sales tax. I would rather give my money to a small business
than to the Amazons of the world but $5 to $7 more per CD plus shipping
is a lot.
I've had some luck with Amazon looking for jazz titles but they, along
with CD Now and Every CD.COM are totally useless when it comes to
internatioanal titles.
I have had some good music purchase experiences on the web. My
partner is a big flamenco fan and I bought her the sound track of Suara's
Flamenco film from flamenco.com in Madrid over the web. The double CD
was comparable to a US price but the shipping from Spain was about the
same as the price of the CD.
We recently visited a friend in Seattle who played us a CD of samba
composer and singer Monarco from Brazil. It was wonderful and we
added it to our list of things to look for. My friend, who'd bought the CD, A
Voz do Samba, at Monarco's club in Rio, said we'd never be able to find
it outside that little club. I found the record company, Kuarup, on the web,
orderded the CD for $13 US. The Shipping from Brazil? $3.50 US!
If anyone finds a site with fair prices and shipping costs and deep
knowledge of the music and a large selection, let me know!
Also, I've recently seen double CD's of tango music issued from Spain
for $27 - $30. Has anyone bought them? What can you say about the
music on them? I'm particularly interested in the Di Sarli and Pugliese
ones.
Lance
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:47:43 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz @CSN.NET>
Subject: Re: "light like a feather"
>Joe Camper wrote:
>
>That makes a woman much heavier than she really is. A prime example would be
>Daniela Arcuri who feels so heavy when she is dancing with you, that you
>wonder why would any man want to dance with a woman who leans on her partner
>the way she does.
>
>Joe Camper.
>
>
>I know that a few other people have already responded to this post but I'm
>going to add my opinion because I believe that this very distasteful type of
>posting is extremely irresponsible. If you don't like a particular style of
>dancing and would like to express your opinion, that is fine. But if you
>are going to berate a specific person in a public forum then you better get
>your facts straight. And you better be prepared for an onslaught of strong
>criticism when the person you attack has as many people who respect and
>admire her as Daniela does.
>...
>Victor Crichton
>Tampa Bay, Florida
People get so passionate about what is the "real" tango!
Tango has many styles, and there is no "one true way". Not a month
ago the criticism was of Chicho and other dancers in the "liquid"
style of Gustavo & Fabian (and others).
I find Joe's comment and Victor's response very interesting.
Personally, I prefer a tango with a strong connection, even if that
means a pressure or density. I do not like a light, floating partner,
which is often advocated in Ballroom. Many excellent tango teachers
promote posture, balance, technique and LIGHTNESS, but very few work
with connection and DENSITY (is there another way to describe it?).
Florencia Taccetti is one of my favorites who emphasizes a physical
pressure/presence, in other words placing primacy in the connection.
In my experience, social dancers in Argentina have a much greater
tendency to density and connection rather than lightness. Many social
dancers outside of Argentina lack density and connection. If there
was one thing I wish North American dancers had a LOT more of, it is
for connection. (Actually, I need the proverbial three wishes so I
can Include include passion and musicality, but those are different
diatribes).
Connection is a concept with many aspects, or forms:
- Physical
- Pressure
- Presence
- Emotion
- Musicality
- Passion
- Density
- Balance
The last one brings us back to Chicho. It is fascinating to observe
the spectacular connection he maintains with his partner even without
staying "front-to-front" like we learn in lesson number one. For
Chicho, the connection is maintained through a dynamic balance
between his and his partner's axis...but it is very, very light, the
opposite of Jim's complaint about Daniela.
Tom Stermitz
2612 Clermont St
Denver, CO 80207
Chautauqua Publishing / Ragtime Interiors
"On-Line Arts & Crafts Movement Resource Directory."
(303) 388 - 2560
stermitz @ragtime.org
http://www.ragtime.org/ragtime/
http://www.tango.org/dance/
End of TANGO-L Digest - 17 Aug 1999 to 18 Aug 1999
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