The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 14 Aug 1999
to 15 Aug 1999
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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:00:01 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 14 Aug 1999 to 15 Aug 1999
There are 9 messages totalling 384 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Apologies
2. TANGO-L Digest - 11 Aug 1999 to 12 Aug 1999
3. "light like a feather" (2)
4. Tango music on KPFA, available on web
5. Re[2]: "light like a feather"
6. Toes and Leaning
7. Leaning Heavily on One's Partner????? Leapin Lizards!
8. Fwd: Alberto/Valorie workshop
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 00:29:50 -0700
From: J Lane <jlane @POP.NWNEXUS.COM>
Subject: Apologies
From: Juan Rando <juan @STARWON.COM.AU>
>Yesterday I sent a joke to my mailing list, and accidentally included
>several unintended addresses including this Tango List.
>The messsage was titled :
>'This should be taken seriously".
>What should be taken seriously, is the fact that it got past the Tango
>List Moderator.
Expecting the Moderator to approve every message that goes out to the
list is completely unreasonable. The Moderator has a life; we can't
expect him to put that kind of time into a volunteer effort.
Shahrukh has always had a light touch on this list, apparently
preferring to depend mostly on the list members to keep track of
things, and exert peer pressure when needed. The few times I can
remember him taking action were done behind the scenes, in private
email.
Jim
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 15:28:25 +0200
From: Sabine Fuchs <Sabine.Fuchs @SBG.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: TANGO-L Digest - 11 Aug 1999 to 12 Aug 1999
Eva wrote -
- snip -
>But this is not enough! We need our heels for our
>balance! To permit women to be elegant all the time,
>we use high heels, so that we more easily reaches the
>floor. Because we need the contact with the floor! We
>need our own balance. La Tanguera should not be just a
>feather in the Mans arms, turning with the wind.
>She needs to give a bit of resistence, to keep up the
>dynamics withing the couple.
- snip -
IMO, a dancer should be able to be in balance being on the
balls only, except maybe in quick turns. Being on the balls
only gives the opportunity to react much quicker and - though
this might sound like a contradiction - gives you more time
for the actual step.
Of course a follower should only do a step when the lead
is absolutely clear - but this has nothing to do with being
on the balls and being "light like a feather".
Being a good follower IMO means, not to suggest a certain
pattern by only one step done by the man and then dancing first,
but following the man's lead, well, the moment he leads you,
staying with the music and doing adornments to the music
whenever you feel like it.
And this, of corse, you should do "light like a feather", and
the best way doing it is staying or at least keeping the weight
always on the balls.
Sabine
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:49:45 -0700
From: Joe Camper <joe.camper @JUSTICEMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "light like a feather"
Sabine wrote, "you should do "light like a feather", and the best way doing it is staying or at least keeping the weight always on the balls."
It is difficlut to maintain balance while always being on your toes, unless you've been trained as a ballet dancer. Unfortunately, some women lean on their partner while trying to stay on the balls of their feet. That makes a woman much heavier than she really is. A prime example would be Daniela Arcuri who feels so heavy when she is dancing with you, that you wonder why would any man want to dance with a woman who leans on her partner the way she does.
Joe Camper.
Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:04:01 -0700
From: Al & Barbara <batango @SLIP.NET>
Subject: Tango music on KPFA, available on web
Emilio and Itati Flores will host a program of tango music on KPFA, the San
Francisco Bay Area listener-supported radio station, at 94.1 FM, Tuesday,
August 17, 8-10 pm. Folks outside Northern California can access the program
on the web at www.kpfa.org (I've been informed that only the first 60
people who tune in on the web will be successful )
A few weeks ago I reported on this List that the KPFA staff had been
locked out by the station's parent Pacifica Foundation (mentioning that KPFA
was almost the only, if occasional, source for tango on the radio in No.
Ca.) The lock-out was ordered to prevent staff members from broadcasting
news of the internal struggle at the station (Pacifica had fired the general
manager and subsequently several program directors and commentators who
discussed the controversy on air). Weeks of protest in Berkeley and Bay
Area media forced Pacifica to remove the gag rule and reinstate the staff.
The struggle is not over yet, however--it is believed that Pacifica wants to
sell the frequency, removing one of the first and most independent bastions
of free speech in the US..
I won't proselytize further. For more information see
www.savepacifica.net
Barbara Garvey
Original Message-----
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To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Saturday, August 14, 1999 12:00 AM
Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 13 Aug 1999 to 14 Aug 1999
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:59:51 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re[2]: "light like a feather"
Joe Camper wrote:
>Unfortunately, some women lean on their partner while trying to stay on the
>balls of their feet. That makes a woman much heavier than she really is. A
>prime example would be Daniela Arcuri who feels so heavy when she is dancing
>with you, that you wonder why would any man want to dance with a woman who
>leans on her partner the way she does.
I have danced with Daniela and found it to be quite enjoyable. Daniela exerts a
constant pressure and is quite easy to lead.
I find women who are constantly shifting their weight from light to heavy and
back to be difficult dance partners. Some women attempting to remain on the
balls of their feet--rather than resting on a heel between steps--may be prone
to constantly shifting their weight.
--Steve (de Tejas)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:39:46 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Toes and Leaning
Joe Camper responded to comments about dancing on the balls as opposed to
dancing on the heels of your feet.
>It is difficlut to maintain balance while always being on your toes, unless
you've been >trained as a ballet dancer.
There is quite a bit of difference between the toes and the ball of the foot.
Don't confuse them. No, one should not dance on the toes, ever. Women (and
men) do not and should not do that. That is not what was said.
>Unfortunately, some women lean on their partner while trying to stay on the
balls of >their feet. That makes a woman much heavier than she really is. A
prime example >would be Daniela Arcuri who feels so heavy when she is dancing
with you, that you >>wonder why would any man want to dance with a woman who
leans on her partner the way she does.
There is a correct posture to maintain in tango. If you stand erect and lean
forward very slightly you will place the torso over the balls of the feet.
When doing this do not allow yourself to bend at the waist either forward or
backward. It has the appearance of leaning but in fact it is not and one
should be able to do this independently of his or her partner without losing
your balance. In other words neither is really leaning on the other person.
However if you are not maintaining this posture and your partner is, it may
seem like that because you will cause them to lean farther forward into you
in order to compensate. There are times when there may be a bit of pressure
into the other person but this could be just necessary dynamics in order to
set up certain steps.
For example the same thing happens in reverse when two people are turning as
in executing a media vuelta with the woman. A small amount of equal
centrifugal force is equally displaced between the two. It's like spinning
around while holding hands. You have to maintain equal force or one will
cause the other to be pulled in.
Women should always resist slightly - they are never supposed to be
"feathers" that move at the slightest breeze. That will also vary with the
size and weight of the person. I am six feet tall and slender so I feel most
comfortable dancing with a particular size partner. If I dance with a small
light woman I need to be less forceful about all of my movements. If I dance
with someone larger, I have to be a little more forceful.
Regarding Daniela being difficult to move, my experience dancing with Milena
Plebs, Carolina Zokalski (Diego and Carolina) or Florencia Taccetti, all
Argentine and professional dancers is that they are more difficult to lead
simply because they expect very precise indications before they go anywhere.
Maybe what you felt was not leaning but a delayed reaction to a not very
precise lead. Also the last time I looked, Daniela was not exactly petite so
you have to take into account basic physics.
Cheers, Charles
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:28:38 -0700
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "light like a feather"
Hi,
I will not comment on the correctness of being on toes,
balls of feet, etc. Frankly, I think that all those things
have less to do with balance and poise the way the woman (or
man) hold themselves. I will say that I've noticed a curious
phenomenom, I've danced with large women who were quite
light on their feet and very easy to lead. I've also danced
with slender, light, women who were more difficult to lead
and felt "heavier". Physics has some effect on this but
skill and balance are the most important. Whether a woman is
poised on her toes, balls of feet or the whole foot is not
so important as whether she keeps their balance, knows her
axis and holds her own weght.
Manuel
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:37:13 EDT
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @AOL.COM>
Subject: Leaning Heavily on One's Partner????? Leapin Lizards!
Leapin Lizards! How can you make a public statement that seems (to me) to
be so derogatory about Daniela Arcuri, one of the greatest female
Argentine Tango performers to be on the Argentine Tango stage and dance
floors in our modern times.
If you want to seek out virtuosity in this art form you have to zero in on
one of the best couples that are doing their thing for nearly 10 years.
Armando Orzuza is such a powerhouse mover and yet he is so totally gentle.
His lead is so tender yet compelling. His movement is near perfect. A
choreographer and master teacher, Daniela Arcuri is schooled in ballet and
has been dancing with Armando to perfect their beautiful style for many
years. She is a "virtuoso Argentine Tango dancer"!!!!
When Daniela steps into her Tango shoes with heels, she has to be about six
feet tall. When you take her in your arms you must immediately be aware that
you have a substantial woman in your abrazzo. Daniela is also a powerhouse
mover. A feather she is not. She is a large lady. When she presents her
body to you on the dance floor you had better be prepared to hold her like a
real man. She will adjust her lean to whomever dances with her for there are
no two men who dance exactly alike. I cannot conceive of anyone being
justified in describing her as "leaning heavily on her partner". As far as
her poise , balance and control are concerned I believe her to be one of the
best female dancers in the world.
If you take a Maserati out on the road you had best be a very capable
driver. When you take Ms. Arcuri out on the dance floor you should be well
prepared to Tango. My mother always told me, "Do not bite off more than you
can chew!"
When I dance with Daniela and she doesn't do exactly what I am leading her to
do.....I would hardly feel it appropriate for me to teach heror suggest that
she might be doing something wrong. I would look inwardly for the fault to
be mine and make the adjustment. When one dances with a tiny lady and then
you have the chance to dance with a larger lady you must adjust to her
characteristics. The lean is a characteristic of a particular style of
Tango. When you encounter a lean you must provide a counter lean or you
might discover you cannot take a good flowing forward step, particularly with
some of the "larger ladies". An adjustment of poise and additional use of
ankles, feet and legs must provide some additional thrust.
Respectfully,
Arturo
AHGberg @aol.com
West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:55:24 EDT
From: Dario Mendiguren <C21DARI @AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Alberto/Valorie workshop
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Dear Tango friends in NYC area
Alberto Paz and Valorie Hart, a couple devoted to promote Tango at SF Bay
area will be coming to NYC the next weekend and they will be conducting a
workshop at Dance New York. They will concentrate on "Tango from the
woman's side of the couple, tango from the man's side of the couple. and
improvisations techniques."
Argentine Tango Workshop with Valorie and Alberto
Saturday, August 21, 1999
5:30 PM - 7:30 PM
Dance New York, 237 W. 54th St., 3rd. Floor, 212.246.5797
Tuition $25
"Tango from the woman's side of the couple, tango from the man's side of the
couple. Improvisations techniques."
For more info call Dario, 917.486.4232
After the Workshop they will be attending Danel and Maria milonga at
Sandra Cameron
Dario
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Reply-To: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @frontiernet.net>
From: "Walter M. Kane" <oldzeid @frontiernet.net>
To: <C21DARI @aol.com>
References: <6a8e90ee.24e561e8 @aol.com>
Subject: Alberto/Valorie workshop
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 15:42:15 -0400
Organization: R. E. Appraisal - Consulting
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Dear Dario,
I notfied Richard Lipkin and Stephen Chin Bow about the workshop, and sent
them info to put on their web pages. I hope they do.
I would announce it with a post to Tango-L, but I am on suspension by
Sharukh Merchant (or one of his pals) so I can't. If you want to take a
chance and do it, here's the information as I received it from Alberto:
*********************************************************
Argentine Tango Workshop with Valorie and Alberto
Saturday, August 21, 1999
5:30 PM - 7:30 PM
Dance New York, 237 W. 54th St., 3rd. Floor, 212.246.5797
Tuition $25
"Tango from the woman's side of the couple, tango from the man's side of the
couple. Improvisations techniques."
For more info call Dario, 917.486.4232
*********************************************************
You could also mention that they are coming with us to Danel & Maria's
milonga after the workshop.
See you Wedneday and Saturday
Walter
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 14 Aug 1999 to 15 Aug 1999
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