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Digest from 13 Aug 1999
to 14 Aug 1999
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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 03:00:00 -0400
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 13 Aug 1999 to 14 Aug 1999
There are 12 messages totalling 518 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. HEELS FIRST OR HEELS LAST
2. Interview with a Milonguero-the unsung hero
3. Veracity
4. Salida
5. Memorized Figures (2)
6. A Long-Term Apartment in Buenos Aires
7. Estilo Milonguero con Cacho Dante en Buenos Aires
8. Leading, Music and Energy
9. Argentine Tango Cruise in Carribean
10. Apologies
11. online maps for Buenos Aires
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:58:51 -0700
From: J Lane <jlane @POP.NWNEXUS.COM>
Subject: Re: HEELS FIRST OR HEELS LAST
From: AlbertoPaz <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
>In my personal experience, a Tango dancer ... does not use his legs/feet
>to lead either with toes or heels, as it has been improperly described
>by "Startstruck in West Palm Beach."
What is taught might be different than what is commonly done.
Nito & Elba, Sandor, Manuel Ortiz, Juan Bruno and others - all
Argentines - have taught the toe-first walk. Nito was very emphatic
about it in a private lesson I had with him a few weeks ago. But I've
seen Nito walk forward heels-first from time to time in social dances.
The only teacher I can think of offhand that explicitly does not teach
toes-first is Michael Walker - a non-Argentine. But having not spent
any time in B.A., I have to admit that it's possible that there are at
least some Argentines who teach heel-first, or have no preference.
Oh, yeah...I also met a local ballroom dance teacher who claimed to be
teaching A.T., and insisted on heels-first. But he also claimed that
the Argentines developed tango in the 1930s as a variation of American
foxtrot. :-)
>Further, the obsession with feet and legs is what keeps a large majority
>of dancers from "getting" the Argentine Tango.
Generalize this to obsession with technique and I'd actually find myself
in the unusual position of agreeing with you. :-) Technique is important;
dancing tango is difficult without good balance, good lead/follow skills,
and a certain elegance of movement. But a certain level of technique
is only a required prerequisite - it isn't the essence of tango.
From: John Trimble <john.trimble @EXCITE.COM>
>As for taking care of the tango, is it a betrayal of the tango to dance
>the mechanics of it to other music (a bolero or blues, say)?
...
>If the real thing is lacking, is it better to confine oneself to
>recorded music, or is it permitted to stray in such circumstances?
Betrayal? Permitted? Did you forget a smiley at the end of this?
The tango is not a conscious entity. How can it be betrayed? There
are some who might claim that it is not permitted, but they have no
authority to enforce their opinions.
Dancing in a tango-inspired way to other music can be very satisfying.
With just the right music, it can feel very much like dancing to tango
music. Other times it's just tango-like, without the feel of tango.
Nobody is going to imprison you for dancing tango to the non-tango
music, although there may be a few who would like to. :-)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:45:52 GMT
From: Lili khayatt <justlili @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Interview with a Milonguero-the unsung hero
Interview with a Milonguero-an unsung hero.
Profile:
Name: Nicolas Corvino
Nationality: Argentine, born in the barrio of Almagro
Age: 67
Profession: Journalist (retired), Professor of Tango de Salon, author of 60
Letras de Tango
Films: Participated in 4 Tango movies, the last of which was Carlos Saura s
Tango, filming for 2 days at the Confiteria Ideal, and 2 videos with Juan
Carlos Copes.
Taught: Amongst others, Maria Pantaso, Maria Villalobo, Susana Miller,
Graciela Gonzales, Guillermina and Osvaldo Soto.
In 1944 I used to live in a Casa familiar , shared with various families,
one of which had four daughters. Each Saturday and Sunday they would go to
the dances accompanied by their mother, as was the custom. When the mother
fell and broke her leg, and the father could not accompany his daughters,
one of them suggested that I should be the chaperone. And thus was born el
tano Nicolas milonguero . First Tango lesson was at age 13, with Virulazo at
Club Defensores. Then I became a student of El Cachafaz. There were no women
in the classes in those days. The practicas were held between men only. It
was mostly Tango Orillero and Jazz the latter being the best compliment to
Tango because of its rhythm. The practicas were for a duration of two hours,
mostly Tuesdays and Thursdays in all the barrios, even in Provincia.
Entrance fee was 50 cents. In those days, I estimate between Saturdays and
Sundays alone, some 500,000 people would be out dancing, just in Capital
alone! This compares to an estimated 10,000 on a weekly basis today.
Tango suffered in the 1950 s because the Municipality forbade dancing
between men, and so one had to bring a sister or cousin along. Also, Sadaic
began charging 40 pesos per practica as a fee for playing the music. These
costs were prohibitive and organizers couldn t cover their costs. The young
people were also not interested in Tango, preferring foreign music.
Consequently places closed down, even in the barrios. The few clubs that
remained were Sin Rumbo, Almagro, Salon Canning, Buenos Aires, El Oeste.
In the barrios of 1955, the men usually asked the women sitting closest to
them to dance. If they didn t know anyone, they would ask by using the
cabecear (the nod) method.
In Peron s time, the use of Lunfardo in Tango was forbidden. It was
sometimes seen as demeaning to women. Evita was evidently a good dancer. She
and Juan Peron gave the Tango some glamour and as a result the brawls and
drunkenness began to diminish. Those notorious confrontations were
apparently created when a milonguero from one barrio entered the club of
another barrio, creating competition and jealousies. They would deliberately
bump, accuse each other of drunkenness, and provoke a fight. It seems that
it was mostly the better dressed milongueros of the more affluent barrios
that were the aggressors! When Alberto Castillo first created his own
orchestra, after years with Tanturi, he hired security agents and, for
protection placed them amidst his orchestra.
Around 1956-58 many cabarets closed as a result of prostitution. Everyone
went to the barrios to dance, and the Tango style became mixed. Some clubs
kept their own style, the Tango Salon was danced in Buenos Aires, Almagro,
Liberal de Nueva Chicago, Sin Rhumbo and Social Rivadavia called the
matrimonial agency, because many couples who met there, married! At that
time, the men stood at the centre of the dance floor, and the women around
the edge of the room, sometimes even on a platform. They would look at each
other and cabecear .
During 1957 few clubs remained open, and like a number of married people,
Nicolas stopped dancing for 20 years.
Tango style started changing around 1965. It was the style of Disarli,
Troilo, D Arienzo, Puglieisi. Nicolas returned to Tango in 1972 and
assisted in a number of practicas. In Social Rivadavia with Raul Bravo for 6
years. In Canning with Miguel Balmaceda, father of Julio (who resisted
learning Tango at that time). The dance floors became smaller as more tables
were added in the salons, and consequently steps had to change to
accommodate this diminished space. Tango then became milonguero style or
apilado. This is also when the face direction changed, so that women could
now look behind the man and warn him of impending clashes.
In 1990 Nicolas worked with Virulazo at the Teatro San Martin for a year.
When the master died, he continued working with his widow, Elvira for 5
years.
In his years as a milonguero, Nicolas has known many dancers of stature: El
Negro, Bolson, Calisay, Flamen, Jose Garcia, Portales, Petroleo, Sensinena,
Todaro, Raul Bravo and so many others.
An exquisite, sensitive and elegant milonguero, as well as a perfect
gentleman, Nicolas skillfully and graciously leads any step, all within
keeping to a one-square-foot space. Here is my way of honouring you Nicolas,
and thanking you for tirelessly giving me hours of true dancing pleasure.
Gracias mi amigo querido.
Lili
http://www.interlog.com/~elshaw/tght.html
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:34:43 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Veracity
Lili Khayatt posted an interview with Nicolas Corvino, part of which is below:
>He is 67 years old i.e. born in 1932
>In 1944 I used to live in a Casa familiar , shared with various families,
>one of which had four daughters. Each Saturday and Sunday they would go to
>the dances accompanied by their mother, as was the custom. When the mother
>fell and broke her leg, and the father could not accompany his daughters,
>one of them suggested that I should be the chaperone. And thus was born el
>tano Nicolas milonguero . First Tango lesson was at age 13, with Virulazo at
>Club Defensores. Then I became a student of El Cachafaz.
It is always fascinating to read stories from the older generation of
milongueros. But since many of us weren't there it is also difficult to
verify who is stretching the truth a little bit. With all due respect for Sr.
Corvino, Danel says some of the older guys make claims that just aren't true
because there is no way to refute them. Perhaps someone could verify this
claim. According to a recent book "Tango!" by Collier, Cooper, Azzi & Martin,
(an excellent coffee table-style book with lots of history, photos, etc.)
Jose Ovidio Bianquet better known as "El Cachafaz" died on the dance floor in
1942 when Nicolas Corvino was only ten years old. If Corvino didn't take a
tango lesson until he was 13 years old that would be 1945. If he then became
a student of "El Cachafaz" was it through a psychic medium? Perhaps the book
is in error. Anyone out there have any insight into this.
Thanks,
Charles
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:47:00 -0700
From: JC Dill <tango @VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Re: Salida
On 11:02 AM 8/9/99 -0500, Stephen P Brown wrote:
> In the first group lesson, we typically teach beginners
> >>... to shift weight to the music, walk in line, walk outside, pause,
> >>walk to the cross, and to do forward ochos
> --with an emphasis on musicality and navigation.
> In the second group lesson, we typically teach beginners
> >>... side steps, how some elements can be put together to construct
> >>an 8CB with weight shift (rock step) ...,
> and back ochos--again with an emphasis on musicality and navigation.
>
> I would submit that someone who attends our first group lesson is
> better prepared to venture onto a crowded social dance floor than I
> was after two lessons that emphasized use of the 8CB/wDBS.
I would submit that this is because you are a "thinking" teacher who has
put a lot of effort into developing something that makes sense and teaches
important units in a logical order. :-)
This is not (unfortunately) the case for most dance teachers (of any type
of dance). Either they follow a rigid syllabus (without understanding why)
or they have a "free form" teaching style that only works for the fastest
learners, or they copy the format that they learned from (and thus the
proliferation of the 8CBwDBS). The fact that you have been able to come up
with a format that emphasizes walking instead of the 8CB is wonderful! It
would be great if you could further flesh out your syllabus of your first
few classes and share it with other instructors as an alternate to the 8CB
for beginners we all seem to be so unfortunately familiar with.
jc
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:47:51 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Memorized Figures
It seems to me the recent discussion about the salida actually raises
a broader issue about the role of memorized figures in Argentine
tango.
Many instructors start beginners with instruction in a basic step
(usually a variation of the 8CB) and progress to through a series of
steps and figures that students typically memorize. Argentine tango
has no official syllabus, but teaching memorized figures seems to
presume such a syllabus exists or that the instructor has an implicit
syllabus in the head.
Many students attending classes, weekend workshops and tango weeks
take copius notes, video tape themselves, and otherwise try to
memorize every step and pattern they learn. To me, the students
taking this approach seem to be ignoring the improvisational aspects
of tango dancing and develop their own syllabus of steps and patterns.
Personally, I view the steps and patterns that instructors teach as
being ideas about how to dance, rather than figures to be memorized.
--Steve (de Tejas)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:58:54 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: A Long-Term Apartment in Buenos Aires
A woman from England is renting an apartment at Rivadavia 1645 near Plaza
Congreso in Buenos Aires. The woman who has been sharing it with her will
be returning to the US at the end of August. She needs to find another
person to share the apartment with her for at least a four-month contract.
If you are looking for an apartment to share on a long-term basis in Buenos
Aires, please contact barbi @altargentina.com as soon as possible. The rent
is $250/month plus expenses (gas, electricity, building maintenance,
telephone).
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:52:52 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Estilo Milonguero con Cacho Dante en Buenos Aires
Cacho Dante has recently returned from a teaching tour in Europe and is
holding classes at La Escuela de Tango Estilo Milonguero which opened this
week. The address is Corrientes 4534 (between Lambare y Yatay). The
classes are on Mondays and Thursdays from 9-11pm.
I took my first class with Cacho last night. It was a well-organized class
with about 16 people. Cacho emphasizes dancing with the music, maintaining
correct posture for balance, and he gave lots of good information on
technique. I am taking the class to learn about the man's role in this
style. I love dancing with Cacho in the milongas.
Cacho will be teaching in New York City, Denver and Atlanta in the fall.
His schedule will be posted when it is finalized.
Janis Kenyon
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 00:37:05 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bjarne_R._J=F8rgensen?="
<bjarne.joergensen @APPLE.AGORA.DK>
Subject: Leading, Music and Energy
Hi list!
Try to conceive leading as a release of energy.
Here is a small exercise to experience this release of energy:
Fill your lungs with air. Feel how your body is full of energy and even =
a sort of overpressure. Empty your lungs and feel how your body goes =
into a state of relaxation. Do it again and when you prepare to release =
the energy, at the same time you prepare to take a step forward. Take =
the step and feel the dynamic, which is different than when taking a =
normal step.
Try to do the same thing with music. Instead of using the air in your =
lungs as the source of energy, use the music. Let your body feel and be =
filled with the music. Release this energy by moving your body and =
placing your feet on the floor.
Do not think of the rythm of the music as beats, rather as accents. You =
must find the accentuations in the music, and use the energy in them =
when you take your step. Let your body be filled with the energy from =
the accent and release this energy. This is often done by finding the =
first beat of the measure, because in tango beat number one is normally =
accented.
If you are leading: Then first of all you must concentrate on releasing =
the energy by moving your body in a clear direction. Focus on the =
movement initiated by the feeling of energy in your body. Leading is =
moving your body.
Heels first/last: When you are making this dynamic movement forward, =
possible as a leader, heels first can be a good solution, because the =
release of energy to the floor is done in the most direct way. If you =
put the toe first, you will tend to inhibit this release of energy and =
disturb the movement. On the other hand, when you want to end the =
movement and the release of energy, perhaps on beat number four wich is =
normally the less accentuated, stepping on the toe could be the =
solution, but still the heel will also work.
What more is, putting your heel first on accentuations, does not mean =
that you give your partner strong rythmic informations. You can easily =
dance smooth, dynamic and constant while placing your heel first on the =
floor. In this case you must only concentrate on moving your body, using =
it to lead (leading like a cat, walking on heels!).
Salida: Find an accentuation of the music. One: Leader goes forward on =
the outside with the left foot/follower goes backward with the right =
foot. Two: step three of the 8CB. Three: step four of the 8CB. Four: =
step five of the 8CB.
One, two, three, four. Fits the music. And the relaxation at step five =
in the 8CB on the fourth non-accentuated beat is wonderfull.
Bjarne
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:26:21 -0700
From: Greg Olsen at Work <golsen @NONSTOP.COM>
Subject: Re: Memorized Figures
I agree that figures should be thought of as ideas on how to dance, but
it is unrealistic to assume that beginners would be in a position to truly
improvise. Their vocabulary of movement is not large enough. There is a
point at which you become aware of what foot the leader is on, what foot
the follower is on, and the relationship of their bodies and can improvise
based on that. Beginners cannot dance at that level.
Most teachers have an implicit syllabus in their head. You have to have
some sort of structure and logic to your instruction. My teacher,
Christy Cote, when she teaches beginning classes, covers walking, turning,
and ochos over 4 classes. Her method has been very successful at getting
students going quickly. The 8CB, and closed resolution are introduced late
in the process. They are not taught as figures to be memorized. The
emphasis is walking inside and outside partner. The 8CB is introduced only
as short version of walking to the cross when going over forward ochos and
a chasse to the side for back ochos.
Happy trails,
Greg Olsen
>From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
>Subject: Memorized Figures
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
> It seems to me the recent discussion about the salida actually raises
> a broader issue about the role of memorized figures in Argentine
> tango.
>
> Many instructors start beginners with instruction in a basic step
> (usually a variation of the 8CB) and progress to through a series of
> steps and figures that students typically memorize. Argentine tango
> has no official syllabus, but teaching memorized figures seems to
> presume such a syllabus exists or that the instructor has an implicit
> syllabus in the head.
>
> Many students attending classes, weekend workshops and tango weeks
> take copius notes, video tape themselves, and otherwise try to
> memorize every step and pattern they learn. To me, the students
> taking this approach seem to be ignoring the improvisational aspects
> of tango dancing and develop their own syllabus of steps and patterns.
>
> Personally, I view the steps and patterns that instructors teach as
> being ideas about how to dance, rather than figures to be memorized.
>
> --Steve (de Tejas)
>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:24:22 EDT
From: CB Rose <CCBTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Argentine Tango Cruise in Carribean
Dear List:
I am going on a TANGO AT SEA cruise in the Caribbean from Dec. 4th thru Dec.
11th. I wanted to share the info with you because the deadline for
reservations is fast approaching: October 1, 1999. I don't know about you,
but I just can't seem to get enough tango so here's the info:
INSTRUCTORS
Christy Cote & Daniel Lapadula
Nito & Elba Garcia
Nora Dinzelbacher
Leon C. Harris
Milonga each night (7) aboard the ss Norway
Leave from Miami to: St. Maarten, St. Thomas, St. John & Great Stirrup Cay
plus 3 days aboard ship with tango, tango, & more tango
I have never been on a cruise, get seasick and claustrophobic, BUT for tango
and the Carribean I'm going to give it a try. So..................join the
fun!
If you are interested call: 800-953-6050 (Cruises Plus)
I HAVE NO FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS EVENT.
CB Rose
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:07:30 +0800
From: Juan Rando <juan @STARWON.COM.AU>
Subject: Apologies
My Apologies :
Yesterday I sent a joke to my mailing list, and accidentally included
several unintended addresses including this Tango List.
The messsage was titled :
'This should be taken seriously".
What should be taken seriously, is the fact that it got past the Tango
List Moderator.
Juan Rando
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:58:59 -0400
From: "A. Lester Buck III" <buck @COMPACT.COM>
Subject: online maps for Buenos Aires
I am interested in building a web page about milongas, practicas,
and classes in Buenos Aires with links to maps and bus routes, etc.
Does anyone know if there are online map services available
for Buenos Aires? I was looking for something similar to
<www.zip2.com>, <www.mapquest.com>, etc., which cover North
America.
My Spanish is weak, so I can't do a search directly for myself.
Thanks alot!
Lester
--
A. Lester Buck buck @compact.com
End of TANGO-L Digest - 13 Aug 1999 to 14 Aug 1999
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