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Otra concert
- Subject: Otra concert
- From: Sophie de Rijk <S.deRijk @is.ruu.nl>
- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:20:12 +0100
Hello everybody,
OTRA, the orquesta tipica of the Rotterdam conservatory wil play in
O42 (Oranjesingel 42) in Nijmegen, Holland, on Saturday June 15th at
20.45 h.
The opportunity to dance to an orchestra of 15 musicians! If
you're in the neighbourhood...... (it is this seasons last concert!)
See you,
Sophie
S.deRijk @is.ruu.nl
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.93.960610144730.7026A-100000 @comenius>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:22:51 +0200
From: Ane Heber <ane.heber @ils.uio.no>
Subject: Tango in New York?
I am going to New York next week (21.june-29.june) and I want to know if
there are any Tango-events happening in this period. I also want to know
about nice tango- places, clubs and concerts in New York.
Ane
Oslo, Norway
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960610153932.24600A-100000 @club.eng.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:41:27 +0100
From: "J.C. Moodie" <93jcm @eng.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Tango in New York?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.93.960610144730.7026A-100000 @comenius>
On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Ane Heber wrote:
> I am going to New York next week (21.june-29.june) and I want to know if
> there are any Tango-events happening in this period. I also want to know
> about nice tango- places, clubs and concerts in New York.
>
While you're at it, I'll be there from 30th June til 5th July - so I'm
asking the same question!
Joanna, Cambridge (UK)
Message-Id: <31bc408e185a002 @cliff.uoknor.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:34:40 -0500
From: Ralph Doty <rdoty @uoknor.edu>
Subject: Tango workshop with Brooke Burdett
On Saturday, July 13th, there will be a one-day workshop for beginners in
Argentine tango at the Harpe Dance Studios in Oklahoma City. Brooke Burdett,
who will teach the workshop, has been dancing Argentine tango for two years
and is a professional dance teacher in Boulder, CO. Brooke has studies with
Daniel Trenner, participated in Puente al Tango '96, and stayed in B.A. for
about a month afterwards to study with some of the master teachers from Puente
al Tango. Cost for the workshop, which will run from 10 a.m to 4:30 p.m., will
be $20 per person in advance or $25 at the door. All tangueros, tangueras, and
wannabes are cordially invited to join us. For further information, e-mail me.
Ralph Doty
rdoty @uoknor.edu
Message-Id: <9606101217.ZM8530 @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:17:04 -0700
From: Larry Carroll <larryc @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Subject: Tango Dancers as Lovers
Alberto is fond of referring to a tango dance as a 3-minute love
affair. I like that, but I'd like to expand the metaphor. I make it a
practice to dance with every woman at a milonga who wants to dance,
not just the best dancers or most beautiful. Very few of them trigger
my romantic impulse. So it make more sense to me to call a dance "a
3-minute relationship."
But watching dancers does lead one to speculate about how they'd be as
lovers. I suspect the way people dance tells a lot. After all, you
don't magically change to someone else when you get on the dance floor.
Is s/he fierce & energetic, or gentle & slow? Is s/he ALWAYS fierce,
or ALWAYS gentle, or does s/he have the flexibility of spirit to be
either? Does s/he obviously have very strong (positive or negative)
emotions (maybe hysterically so), or is s/he cold & neutral & flat?
Does he get to know your dancing style & limits, or push you around
regardless of what you want or can do? Does he dance you over to
people he wants to impress & then show off for them? Is she always
looking around to see what others are doing, paying no attention to
you?
Does he blunder into people, or almost, because he pays attention only
to himself? Is he always looking at your bosom, or does he look at
your face? Does she say no to you because she's tired, & an instant
later is dancing with a gorgeous hunk?
Is s/he creative, experimenting, coming up with new ways to do things
to surprise you & hi/rself? Or always does the same things? Insists
that there's only one right way to do anything (their way)? When s/he
makes a mistake, is it always your fault?
And lastly, is she willing to ask me to dance, rather than just wait?
And does he usually say yes when a woman asks him to dance, or does it
always have to be when HE wants to?
Larry de Amores
--
Message-Id: <9606101213.ZM8352 @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:13:51 -0700
From: Larry Carroll <larryc @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Subject: Osvaldo Zotto at IATF
Rumors to the contrary, Osvaldo Zotto's broken arm will not keep him from
the International Argentine Tango Festival in Columbus. Or so says Maria
Bastone, of the Danel & Maria dance teachers partnership.
Larry Carroll
--
Message-Id: <960611014544_103501.647_IHI37-1 @CompuServe.COM>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 21:45:45 EDT
From: WILLIAM CHEORVAS <103501.647 @CompuServe.COM>
Subject: CHINESE ORIGIN OF TANGO
My friend Dr. Ramon Sison of Beverly Hills requested that I post
his dissertation on the origin of the tango in China.
Also, earlier, Ramon gave permission for its publication in
El Firulete.
Ramon and his wife Rosario (Charito) are both physicians and are
avid tangueros. Also, they have organized a group of
physicians in the Los Angeles area into a group that performs
exhibitions of Argentine tango, as well as other dances.
Ramon's dissertation follows:
THE DANCE OF GO-TAN
It is universally acknowledged that the Chinese invented practically
everything, including the compass, the printing press, and
gunpowder. Westerners used the compass to find their way around
the world to acquire new territories, the printed word to brainwash
their colonial slaves, and gunpowder to force into submission those
who resisted.
This may come as a shock to all knowledgeable milonga experts
historians, and philosophers; but the Chinese also have a
legitimate claim to the invention of the tango.
The great Mongolian warrior, Genghis Khan (1167-1127). subjugated
all of China, Northwest India, part of Russia, and the region that is
now Iran. When he was not waging war, he loved being entertained
in his palatial tent with music and dancing.
In the court of Genghis was a young man named "GO". Go was a
go-getter, a handsome young officer of Khan's 143rd Cavalry.
One day, 1 February 1223 to be exact, he was drunk as usual.
Then something unusual happened. He joined the dancing girls
with his own improvised choreography.. (Please note the
establishment of two important elements: improvisation and
drunkenness). The emperor was so amused that he encouraged Go to
forego his military career and devote all of his time to dancing.
He said, "Go, go for it!".
Go's dance, since then, was regularly performed and accompanied by
the rhythmic beating of gongs. It was called the "Gong Show".
Because of the drinking, the dance was also called "Whiskey-A-Go-Go".
Go's last name was Tan , a common Chinese surname. Since it was
customary to mention the family name first, Go's full name was
Tan-Go, and not Go Tan as they say in Argentina and the rest of the
world. His new choreography (always improvised, of course) was
named after him: Tango. Incidentally, his father, Sun (Tan Sun), or to
westerners, Sun Tan) was the Chinese discoverer of solar energy.
Tango became a very popular dance among all the commoners and all the
shepherds out in the desert. All the dancers tried to outdo each other.
The Mongols, in particular, were extremely competitive, even belligerent,
and sometimes they shot poisoned arrows or wrote to each other with
poisoned quills. This became a tradition, albeit an ugly one, that has
continued to this day via the Internet. A number of individuals claiming
to be experts, self-appointed authorities, and sole proprietors of the
nce., proclaimed from the highest peak of the sand dunes that they
were the only ones dancing authentic tango. Many other Mongols
complained, and the "Mongolian Beef" became widespread through-out
the Asian continent. The Mongolian beef served in Chinese restaurants
today commemorates the "Tango Wars of the 1200's".
Tango was at the peak of its popularity when Kublai Khan (1216-1294) , the
grandson of Genghis, was emperor. Under Kublai's rule, art and science
flourished, and cultural relations were established with countries throughout
the world. During this period, Marco Polo (1271) accompanied his father,
Nicolo, and his uncle Maffeo on a visit to Peking (now Beijing) , the capital
city
established in 1264.
Marco began his return trip to Italy in 1292 and reached Venice in 1295.
He brought home rice noodles (an imitation of which was later concocted as
"spaghetti") and, of course, tango. He was accompanied on his journey home
by a young Chinese dancer named Gow (last name, Cho).
Cho Gow was grandson of Go Tan. Cho Gow settled in Venice where he
married an Italian girl named Lucia. He trained his wife, and they became the
most popular ballroom dancers and teachers in all of Europe. Many merchants
of Venice took lessons. Among their famous students was Giotto, the
greatest artist of early Italian Renaissance. Also, Giotto was known for his
ability
to draw perfect circles freehand. He took a few tango lessons and then had to
give it up. He had two left feet which forced him to do "giros"all the time,
which
made him very dizzy. Also, he annoyed other dancers because as he went
endlessly in small circles, he stepped on everyhone's heels and broke up the
line
of dance in the ballroom. On one occasion, he stepped on beautiful Juliet's
delicate
toes, and he was beaten up badly by her boyfriend , Romeo, and his gang.
Poor Giotto then went back to his famous freehand drawing of circles.
Dozens of generations later (circa 1900), a descendant of Cho Gow, Fernando
Gowcho, emigrated to Argentina, along with many other Italians. The dancing
tradition of Go Tan's descendants was unbroken. Fernando entertained and
taught the dance of Go Tan to the Portenos of Buenos Aires.
Fernando married Esmeralda, an Indian girl with big feet from Patagonia.
He could not earn enough money from dancing and teaching to support his
growing family. He made and sold sausages which he simply called
"Mi Longaniza". His longaniza became a hot-selling item because it was
fatter and longer than those of his competitors. The name of his product was
abbreviated to "Mi longa", and also the name was applied to his faster
version of the tango.
When Fernando Gowcho became too old to dance and had made enough mango
from his longaniza, he bought a ranch where her raised horses. His family, with
five sons, Gan, Pan, Mon, and Ran, became known as the Gauchos.
The children preferred to use the original family name Cho. The Chos chose Cho:
Gan Cho, Pan Cho, San Cho, Mon Cho, and Ran Cho.
One of the Cho brothers, Gan, became a doctor and an excellent tanguero.
When he went to Paris for his postgraduate medical studies, he became the toast
of
the City of Lights. His tango style developed into a unique one because of his
irresistible urge to wrap his leg around his partner's. This dance figure
became
known by his name, Gancho. In Paris, it was Dr. Gancho's erotic dance that
inspired a young chap by the name of Carlos Gardel to become a tango singer.
In the 1930's, tango finally gained worldwide popularity, thanks to a Hollywood
movie idol, Rudolph Valentino. Contrary to popular belief, Valentino was not
an Italian. He was born in an American Indian reservation and was a direct
descendant of the great Apache warrior, Geronimo. Cell Mark Laboratories
(of O.D. Simpson murder trial fame) recently completed DNA studies on the
remains of Valentino and Geronimo, and found their genes to match perfectly.
This explains the fighting spirit of some of Geronimo's descendants.
Anthropologists have proven that American Indians originally came from
Asia by way of the Aleutian islands many millennia ago. In the 1880's, some
of their long-lost cousins came from China (Chinese coolies) to build the
railroads. In their first pow wow (family reunion), they taught Geronimo a
tango, which later became know as the Apache tango.
Modern tango mujsic and orchestration were concurrently developed and
modernized by the Italians in Argentina. The bandoneon, however, was
invented by a German who believed that the dance and music of tango must
always be improvised. He then scrambled the musical scale on both sides
of the accordion-like instrument ( both keyboards consisting of hard-to-find
buttons for the left and right hands). It was purposely designed to confuse
the bandoneonistas. The inventor hoped that their music would sound
confused and thus improvised. The German fellow simply hated anything
pre-meditated (as in pre-meditated first-degree murder). The only people
in the world today who dance adhering to the original Go Tan (improvisation
and tippling) are the Finns.
The bandoneon has now became the sine qua non of tango orchestration.
"You ain't got no bandoneon, you ain't got no tango music", so the critics
and experts pontificate. Sounds like all the traditionalists who declare in
their
papal bulls: "Can't play no jazz if it ain't Dixie with a banjo"; "Can't really
sing the blues, tap dance, or play authentic jazz unless you're a black
American"; "Can't dance authentic tango unless you dance exactly the way
the portenos did in the bordellos of 1880". Not true, some of the best
tangueros
are Afghans and Iraqi Kurds. In fact, the Kurds were dancing tango in the
streets when they were gassed by Saddam Hussein.
In an attempt to end all arguments among the critics, the purists, and the
traditionalists, once fierce combatant (a lady, sin cojones, naturally) in the
Tango War of the 1990's, declared, "Shut up! There ain't nobody who can
talk and dance authentic Go Tan unless they are Chinese!" AMEN!!
References:
1." History and Philosophy of Chinese Dances", by Confucius.
2. "Red Tango", by Madame Chiang Ching (widow of the late Chairman Mao).
3. "Diary of Marco Polo".
4."Meditations of a Buddhist Monk on Acrobatic Tango".
5 "Butt-sliding Exclusively Ballroom", by Beavis and Butthead.
6.El Firulete.
7. Internet postings, "Tango-l". .
By Ramon Sison, M.D., Beverly Hills, CA
Copyright, 1996.
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.93.960610172953.27794D-100000 @elaine22.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:45:23 -0700
From: Richard Powers <vintage @leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: translator needed at Stanford
The Stanford Tango Week just added Nestor Ray, of Buenos Aires, to the
lineup of milongueros, so we now need another translator.
We are looking for someone who is fluent in both English and Spanish, of
course, and we have had the best success with a translator whose first
language is English.
The translator is just assigned to one instructor, so the daily work load
is light. So far, our translators have chosen to receive tuition to the
weeks in exchange for their services.
Since the Tango Weeks are now filled, this is now the only way for someone
to join the weeks at this time. If the person accepting this offer is
already registered for the Tango Week, their tuition will be refunded.
If you are interested, please respond before Saturday June 15. (As usual,
respond to me instead of to the list.)
Thanks.
Richard Powers
vintage @leland.stanford.edu
Message-Id: <m0uTKmK-0002bmC @skypoint.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:10:00 CDT
From: Dave Sherohman <jagsys19 @skypoint.com>
Subject: Thoughts on teaching tango
I made the following replies on the "Beginners thoughts on teaching tango"
thread last week but, due to software misconfiguration on my end, they
didn't reach the list. Here they are again:
>To: Laurie Moseley <L.Moseley @swansea.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Beginners opinions on teaching strategies (1 of 3)
>
>At 09:42 AM 6/5/96 +0100, Laurie Moseley wrote:
>> We shall
>>make a few assertions, but more in the expectation that they will be
>>criticised, if not shot down in flames, rather than accepted. So, please
>>forgive the beginners' first flush of enthusiasm.
>
>Heh, heh, heh... Fresh meat...
>
>> The question which we want to pose is "Which approach is likely
>>to lead to more progress, and more enjoyment ?"
>
>First off, keep in mind that the two options are bty no means mutually
>exclusive. The local quasi-instructor made a point in his first few classes
>of telling the class that he would spend the first half of the session
>teaching what _he_ wanted them to learn (fundamentals, how to move - your
>"bottom up" approach) and the second half teaching what _they_ wanted to
>learn (flashy stuff - your "top down" approach). (Unfortunately, this has
>since degraded into half an hour of endlessly repeating 8-count Salidas with
>no mention of technique, but just drilling on 'back, side, forward...',
>followed by half an hour of "Now, to the 15-minute long pattern we've built
>up over the last month, we'll drop a molinete into a parada to a mordida to
>a sacada-ocho-sacada-ocho sequence - oh, and remember that any of these
>pieces can be done independently, even though we'll never practice them
>outside of this routine". IMHO, the worst of both worlds.)
>
>>We are reasonably proficient ballroom dancers, and our experience in
>>learning that form of dance was instructive.
>
>A reminder of something I sometimes forget: Argentine tango is not
>ballroom. While there are certain similarities and each can, in some ways,
>help the other, what applies does not necessarily apply to both.
>
>>It might sound as though this was an argument for the bottom-up approach.
>>We don't think that it is. It's all very well to learn to walk properly,
>>but you have to be able to walk somewhere and do something.
>
>Tango is a walking dance. If you walk, you get somewhere and (here's one of
>the major differences between tango and ballroom) if you want to do
>something along the way, you can make it up. (Before my partner calls me a
>hypocrite, I shall freely admit that I don't often make things up, and when
>I do, I prefer to work them out on the sidelines instead of just doing it.)
>
>> The fact that we had quite
>>a lot of figures available (albeit we performed them poorly) meant that
>>when we did start on the basics of proper movement we had something to move
>>them in.
>
>It also meant that you had (will have?) a number of Bad Habits to unlearn.
>My experience has been that it's easier (even if sometimes less interesting)
>to learn things right the first time than it is to learn it wrong and then
>go back and unlearn your bad habits.
>
>> Once you start to get your foot movement slow
>>and your balance on the standing foot, when you come upon three couples
>>treading grapes in a corner, you have time and options for taking avoiding
>>action.
>
>Excellent example to make another point for learning it right the first
>time: If you're charging down the floor, 85% out of control, are you going
>to have the time to react to this situation without losing your balance or
>interrupting your dance? Sure, this makes things great once you start to
>learn to do things correctly, but I'm not sure I'd want to be on the floor
>with you when you're just learning patterns but have no idea how to do them.
>To: Laurie Moseley <L.Moseley @swansea.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Beginners opinions of teaching strategies (2 of 3)
>
>At 09:44 AM 6/5/96 +0100, Laurie Moseley wrote:
>> Two months ago we therefore
>>went away for a weekend at which Paul and Elaine Bottomer taught some basic
>>figures to a group of about 60 people.
>
>I seem to recall a discussion a month or two back which arose from a claim
>that the Bottomers are Evil Incarnate. While I don't recall the details
>(perhaps someone who was actively involved in that one can help us out
>here), I came away with enough sense of forboding that I wouldn't want
>anything to do with them. What I do recall is that they claimed to be
>"World Champion Aregentine Tango Dancers", yet nobody in the Argentine tango
>community had ever heard of them - or of any Argentine tango championships.
>(Indeed, I expect that most would feel that such a championship would be a
>greivous insult to the spirit of Argentine tango.)
>
>> They started with La Revolucion, La
>>Coqueta, La Media Luna, and El Atreversado.
>
>I haven't seen any of these terms on the list before. What are these
>figures? (Perhaps we should add them to the Tango Terms FAQ?)
>
>> After that weekend, we could get up and dance, however
>>horribly - and we loved it.
>
>This is a good thing, as far as it goes. But if Joe and Jane Average walked
>in off the street and went through this class would they, not having your
>ballroom background, be safe to dance near? I doubt it.
>
>>1. Basic construction - Double Start, Salida, Closing Finish
>>2. Double Start, Doble Ochos, Closing Finish
>>3. Reverse Start, La Sentada, Reverse Turn Check
>>4. La Parada, Sweep, Change Sides.
>>5. Paso de Felino, Doble Cruzada (and variants on it).
>
>More fodder for the Tango Terms FAQ - Double Start, Closing Finish
>(presumably Resolution Natural (or however it's spelled in Spanish)),
>Reverse Start (the Evil Back Step On 1?), Reverse Turn Check, Change Sides,
>Paso de Felino.
>
>>We are also busily looking at the exhibitions and noting down the moves
>>(including style) in our own idiosyncratic notation, although we are not
>>yet ready to try these out on the floor.
>
>If these are "exhibitions" of stage tango, most of their figures are not
>likely to be suitable for social dancing. Please do not take these out on
>the floor, even if you know them perfectly.
>
>>Of course, when we can find an experienced teacher, we will use their
>>services and presumably learn the basics of hold, style. etc. under an
>>experienced eye. Until then, should we trot around doing the 8-step basic,
>>or worse still not try it at all ? Should we deny ourselves the pleasure
>>of actually trying to do this wonderful dance, however awful we may be ?
>>We think not.
>
>I agree that Bad Tango is better than No Tango. However, you seem to have
>discovered that figures can be reverse-engineered from tapes far more easily
>than technique. Therefore, should you not seek instruction in technique and
>make up/reverse-engineer steps rather than learning steps and making up
>technique? I would certainly say that you should.
>To: Laurie Moseley <L.Moseley @swansea.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: Beginners opinions of teaching stratiegies (3 of 3)
>
>At 09:45 AM 6/5/96 +0100, Laurie Moseley wrote:
>>1. The basic which we have learned (from the video) is Double Start,
>>Salida, Closing Finish. Now, we like the Double Start.
>
>Cool. What is it?
>
>> It is an exciting
>>way of getting moving, and you can do things like leading with the elbow
>>and looking down the arm line.
>
>I'm not sure I like the sound of that... It sounds more reminiscent of
>Groucho Marx than Carlos Gardel.
>
>> To get the timing, we just did it to the video until our feet were
>>coming down at the same time as the experts. So we could do it to one
>>melody (the one on the video). We then tried it out with other melodies on
>>a CD, and the feet seemed to come down at the right points in the music
>>there as well. It does not seem complicated or difficult. Is this so, or
>>are we just being naive (it's quite likely) and letting our inexperience
>>speak ?
>
>If you're using the same timing as the "experts" <cough> <gag> in order to
>get the 'right' places in the music, you're letting your inexperience speak.
>The 'right' timing varies from song to song - and from couple to couple
>dancing the same song. (This is another major difference between Argentine
>tango and ballroom.)
>
>>2. The business of all Slows seems to us to negate the idea of the dance.
>
>I disagree. It seems easier (to me and to the others I have seen learning)
>to vary the timing of a pattern learned at an even cadence than one taught
>in a mix of slows and quicks. For example, if you learn the run to cruzada
>(2-3-4 or 3-4-5 in an 8-step salida, depending on where you start it) as a
>quick-quick-slow, you're likely to try to do it q-q-s the vast majority of
>the time instead of following the timing of the particular song. This
>tendency is much less pronouced if you learn it in even timing.
>
>Another potential argument for learning tango diong all slows is that,
>according to Argentinos, those of us from the northern hemisphere tend to
>dance tango too fast. Perhaps learning with all slows might help to slow us
>down.
>
>>. Surely one should dance to
>>whatever rhythm the music is giving you. If it says Slow-Quick-Quick, that
>>is what you do. Of course, we may all hear what it says differently. The
>>Bottomers say that the Double Start is Quick-Quick-Slow. One of us hears
>>it as Slow-Quick-Quick (and also thinks that that is what they actually do
>>!).
>
>So, if you are out at a milonga and you wish to do this Double Start at a
>point where the music says, "Quick-Slow-Quick", do you do q-q-s or s-q-q? I
>should hope not! You ignore the timing you were taught and dance q-s-q, right?
>
>>We're led to
>>believe that "Look how beautifully they wait" is a great compliment. If
>>that is so, why should beginners not wait as much as they want ?
>
>Because it makes group classes more difficult to teach if everyone is using
>a different timing when they drill as a group. Because most (North American
>and European) beginners don't wait enough and should get into the habit of
>waiting more.
>To: Alexis Cousein <al @brussels.sgi.com>
>Subject: Re: Beginners opinions on teaching strategies (1 of 3)
>
>At 11:10 AM 6/5/96 -0600, Alexis Cousein wrote:
>>I'm only suggesting the teacher *informs* the waht and why of what he's doing,
>>and instils a form of humility into pupils, i.e. makes it clear you don't have
>>to do just this one pattern till it's beaten to death and *can* move on to
>>something else, but still avoid saying "OK, check pattern #23 off the list,
>>darling: we `completed' it".
>
>OTOH, this has its place as well - I will frequently take a new pattern that
>is being taught, work at it until I do it 'right' at least once, (the
>equivalent of 'checking it off the list') and then rip it apart into little
>itty-bitty pieces and rearrange them into something I like better.
Message-Id: <01BB5780.7626B820 @fluiter.rug.ac.be>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 10:26:31 +-200
From: David Ducheyne <David.Ducheyne @rug.ac.be>
Subject: Perfume de Tango
Hi all,
yesterday evening I attended the tango-*show* 'Perfume de Tango' in =
Brussels. It was organised at the occasion of the visit of Carlos Menem =
who attended as well (not meaning to say anything).
I was quite impressed with the performance of the dancers (whose name I =
fail to remember) but I'd like to share some impressions :
* It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet. I tried to follow the steps =
but I didn't recognize most of them (since I am at intermediate level =
this is possible).
* Some of the steps could not have been unprepared. So it was more =
choreography than real tango. Or else, am I mistaken to see the =
leader-follower communication as central to tango ?
* They performed tango with three (two men and one woman). Impressive =
but tango ?
I would like to add that the atmosphere was great, the orchestra was =
given it's limited size OK and the show was perfectly organized. A night =
to remember.
David
=20
David A.H. Ducheyne T : ++ 32 / 9 / 264 64 58
Work Psychologist F : ++ 32 / 9 / 264 64 94
University of Ghent F : ++ 32 / 9 / 264 64 58
Faculty of Psychology & Educational Sciences David.Ducheyne @rug.ac.be
H. Dunantlaan 2 http://alserv.rug.ac.be/~dducheyn/P
B - 9000 Gent Private : T : ++ 32 / 50 / 36 24 66
Laziness is decay of society
Message-Id: <960611111525_76651.1421_BHA33-1 @CompuServe.COM>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 07:15:26 EDT
From: Robert Blais <76651.1421 @CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Perfume de Tango
Hello David
You wrote: "yesterday evening I attended the tango-*show* 'Perfume de
Tango' in =
Brussels. It was organised at the occasion of the visit of Carlos Menem =
who attended as well (not meaning to say anything).
I was quite impressed with the performance of the dancers (whose name I =
fail to remember) but I'd like to share some impressions :
* It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet. I tried to follow the steps =
but I didn't recognize most of them (since I am at intermediate level =
this is possible).
* Some of the steps could not have been unprepared. So it was more =
choreography than real tango. Or else, am I mistaken to see the =
leader-follower communication as central to tango ?
* They performed tango with three (two men and one woman). Impressive =
but tango ?
I would like to add that the atmosphere was great, the orchestra was =
given it's limited size OK and the show was perfectly organized. A night =
to remember."
I took the opportunity to answer this review because I was a little
surprised by David Ducheyne's qualification of what he saw.
The show you saw is in my opinion the best tango show you can see right
now in the world. It has been choreographed and is performed by Miguel Angel
Zotto and Milena Plebs. The Orchestra is directed by Daniel Binelli and in my
opinion, is more than OK.
Perfumes de Tango is a stage show and as such, contains steps and moves
that are designed for the stage, so that they can reflect to the audience an
image of tango. This being said, you have to know that Zotto y Milena are
recognized for doing on the stage choreography that are much closer to the tango
of the Milongas than what you usually see in a stage show of that importance.
For example, I dont think you could qualify there interpretation of Gallo Ciego
or of Chique as ballet. This show was built at the origin as an homage to
Carlos Gardel and the intent of the choreographers was to show on stage
different aspects of the tango as it is performed on stage or in the milongas.
I have seen this show twice, once in Montreal and once in Buenos Aires
and I have enjoyed it, tremendously, both times. In my opinion, for somebody who
likes tango, this is THE show to see.
Robert Blais, Montreal
Message-Id: <199606111206.OAA12918 @icpsg2.epfl.ch>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:06:08 +0200
From: Mark Soekarjo <mark @icpsg2.epfl.ch>
About Perfumes de tango:
I am not very fond of tango shows either; I much more enjoy a night at a tango
dance party, when there are some very accomplished dancers and when there is a
good flow on the floor. Sometimes I watch more than I dance. This is especially
true in
a place where I am for the first time. Many couples have a great story to tell
in their (social) dance.
You said:
* They performed tango with three (two men and one woman). Impressive =
but tango ?
In May they performed in Paris (luckily for me at the same time as the WWW5
conference. It seemed like all those Argentinians had arranged to meet in
Paris. Every night there was a party somewhere. On two occasions deep into
the night Miguel and Coco Diaz started to rock & roll, once with Bibiana
and once with Milena. It wasn't tango, but it certainly was impressive, and
expressive. Totally improvised of course.
Mark Soekarjo
Message-Id: <01BB57A4.9EB2ED80 @fluiter.rug.ac.be>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:45:21 +-200
From: David Ducheyne <David.Ducheyne @rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: Perfume de Tango
Robert,
you are surprised at my qualification of yesterday's show. Well maybe my =
questions were too negative. I'd like to repeat that I was very =
impressed by the performance. The qualification of the show of being =
'ballet' is not meant to be levelling but is meant to denotate the =
astronomic distance between the tango in its origin and the on-stage =
variety, that is as I perceive it.
It was surely the best show I ever saw and as I said a night to =
remember.
David.
Message-Id: <960612000747_554455154 @emout15.mail.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 00:07:48 -0400
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg @aol.com>
Subject: Dancing in So. East Florida (UPDATED 6/10/96)
Hi Guys:
See below.....New Milonga Location in Miami Beach at the Seville Hotel and on
a
note of sadness, Danceland USA in West Palm Beach goes out of business.
Here are a few places to go dancing in South East Florida. There are too
many to list all of them and besides, I have already visited most dance
places to scrutinize and evaluate them quantitatively and qualitatively.
You must phone the numbers of the places I provide to confirm the times of
their open-to-the public dances and to get more explicit directions as to
how to travel there. They do vary in ambiance, qualilty of music, and size
of dance floor. They average $6 to $10 admission (for special affairs they
may charge a few dollars more, but are usually worth the price.)
Dance places you want to attend (or return to) will depend on your taste as
well as on your "home base" location while staying in Florida. You must
have the time and the patience to call and be sure of the the details I
provide to see if "things haven't changed"....and they seem to change all
the time. Some of the dance places get quite busy so you would be wise to
also inquire if you need reservations. Some places simply do not accept
reservations and it is "first come first serve". Always inquire about the
"cross streets (the intersection) of the targeted dance place you intend to
go to and confirm the exit name and number off the parkway or tnpk. From West
Palm Beach it takes me about 45 to 50 minutes to get to Ft Lauderdale and
about an hour to get to Miami. The Florida Turnpike charges tolls while I-95
is toll free.
Start with Margo's dances in Hallandale, Florida Tel#(305) 454-9785
(just north of Miami). Please note that Margo has moved her dance
operation from the ballroom named "La Quebecoise" to another called
"Club Kays" a few blocks east and on the south side of Hallandale Beach
Blvd.; the phone number remains the same while the new address is 1710
E. Hallandale Beach Blvd., Hallandale, FL. ( get off at the Hallandale
Beach Blvd exit of I-95, and drive east. When you pass the RR Tracks stay
to the right and watch for the Publix Shopping Center on the right side. Make
a right turn into the Publix Shopping Center. Watch for the sign, "Club
Kays". This location affords abundant free parking, immediately
adjacent. Margo is your charming hostess. She plays excellent dance
music (handled personally) over a great sound system (sometimes there's a
live band).There is a large, well kept hardwood dance floor. If you are a
"Latin American" dance enthusiast do not miss the Sunday (5:30 to 8:00 PM)
concentrated Latin American session. Some of the best dancers in Florida will
be seen there doing Salsa/ Mambo, Cha Cha, Merengue and an occasional
Tango. Immediately following the Latin session there is a mixed music
session for general dancing. Admission $6.00 ...Drinks are available at the
bar. (no food)
I am saddened to hear THIS DATE of the demise of Danceland USA. This
onetime flourishing dance place in West Palm Beach, Florida, closed its doors
to the public last week. I will keep you apprised of any new information as
I am further informed of any new or changing status.
Danceland USA (Sonia's) 1900 Okeechobee Blvd., West Palm Beach, FL.
Tel#(407) 686-4386 (just West of I-95 on Okeechobee
Blvd,............Closed.......Out of business.....If Chuck and Sonia, a very
hard working and determined couple, decide to regroup and to open a dance
place elsewhere I will pass that information along to you all.
Luigi's Ballroom (There are two locations.)
One in Tamarac @ the Italian American Club
7166 N. University Dr. (in the Woodmont Square)
(North of McNab Rd), Tamarac, FL Abundant free parking immediately adjacent.
Tel #(305) 721-9156 or(305) 652-1040
.......the other one in Hallandale in the Gulf Stream Promenade, Suite 772,
Corner of US Route #1 & Hallandale Beach Blvd., (Travel East from I-95, go
"just past RTE #1 and stay to the right,watch for sign that says,"Luigi's
Ballroom" near Tony Roma's) Hallandale, FL. Tel #(305) 455-0400
MR. DANCE BALLROOM ( You will find that anything operated by Mr. Dance,
Alfred Friedman is well run; expect quality, integrity and class.) Off
at Commercial Blvd exit ( from both I-95 and FL Tnpke) 4567 N. State Rd 7
(Rte 441) Lakes Town Center, Lauderdale Lakes , FL. Admission $5-10
depending on the night attended. Watch for the Picadilly Cafeteria Sign,
the dominating sign in the front of the shopping center. (From Commercial
Blvd make a right (south) onto Rte 441. Going south, make a right into
shopping center. Parking is abundant. The ballroom is on your right behind
the Picadilly Cafeteria. Tel # (305) 733-2623 (dial 73DANCE). Well kept
wooden floor. Jeff & Vinny, the DJ's, provide excellent mix of recorded
ballroom dance music. Tuesday and Thursday evenings from 7:30PM to 11:00
PM. Call the Mr. Dance Info Hotline (305)677-9166 about other weekly dance
activities which include Square Dance, Round Dance and Typical Latin/Salsa
Dances. (This beautiful facility is also available for your own private
party; give Alfred a call for details...He is very accommodating.) Abundant
parking immediately adjacent.
The Polish American Hall @ 935 Rock Island Road in North Laulderdale, is
another very nice place to go dancing and is also hosted by Jeff & Vinny on
Friday & Sunday evenings at 7:30 PM. They provide a variety of very
danceable recorded music over excellent speakers. The dance floor is well
kept and spacious. Phone (407) 391-3238 for more information. Free parking
adjacent.
Bergeron Ballroom
2100 45th St., #B21 West Palm Bch. FL. Off I-95 at 45th Street exit...go
East about 300 yards to Shopping Center on your right. Mark & Kathy are
your host & hostess. Admission of $6 includes soft drink(s). Free parking
adjacent.
Tel #(407) 845-7838
Pompano Beach Civic Center (Phone 954-786-4111)
1801 N. E. 6th Street Shirley is your hostess.
Pompano Beach, FL 33060 The spacious dance floor is
extremely well kept.
Abundant free parking immediately adjacent.
.
The Empress Ballroom
(small but quite charming)
145 Ave L
Delray Beach, FL.
Tel #(407) 276-1845 free parking.
Roberta & Irving's ...The Dance Place
Dances held in the Polish-American Club
3861 Sterling Rd.
Hollywood, FL
Tel # (305) 437-4488 Free parking adjacent.
Derek's Dancemasters (There are two locations!)
12390 W. Dixie Highway
N. Miami,FL
Tel (305) 893-3010 Free parking.
Derek's Dancemasters
Derek has taken over La Quebecoise ballroom for dances
on Tuesday, Thursday & Sunday evenings at his
2nd location: Abundant free parking adjacent.
211 S.E. First Ave.
Hallandale, FL
ARGENTINE TANGO- A CLASS AND A PRACTICE SESSION
If you want a taste of learning and dancing authentic Argentine Tango, each
Monday evening at 7:30 PM, Jorge Nel holds a class followed by a practice
session at Mr. Dance's Ballroom, 4695. N. State Road 7, Lauderdale lakes, Fl
33319. Beginners to intermediate will feel comfortable in the class and the
pupils are very sociable. No partners required. $8.00 per person. Phone
(305) 733-2623 Jorge's Tel # is (305) 667-0809 Free parking adjacent.
ARGENTINE TANGO- CLASS FOLLOWED BY A PRACTICE SESSION
On Wednesday evenings at 7:30 PM Jorge Nel holds another class at the Elks
Club, 22 Giralda Ave. (21st St. S>W> & 37th Ave.) Coral Gables, Florida.
$8.00 per person. No Partners required. Phone Jorge Nel at (305) 667-0809
ARGENTINE TANGO- A CLASS AND MILONGA (A TANGO DANCE)
Diana & Enrique teach a class from 8 to 9PM followed by Tango dancing till
midnight each Friday evening at the Knights of Columbus Hall, 270 Catalonia
Ave (off Ponce DeLeon), Coral Gables, Florida $10 admission per person at
the door. (305) 931-1369
ARGENTINE TANGO- A CLASS AND MILONGA ( A TANGO DANCE PARTY) On Sunday
evenings at Mr. Dance's Ballroom, Daniel & Graciela hold a class in
authentic Argentine Tango which starts at 7:30 PM followed by a Milonga, a
Tango dance session. These Sunday evening Tango sessions have become
increasingly popular .. Although the material presented in the class is
usually intermediate to advanced, beginner's are also welcome. It will be
a thrill and a delight for most who simply want to come and Watch some of
the best Argentine Tango dancing that Florida has to offer.
Admission $10.00 per person at the door.
Phone (305) 733-2623
ARGENTINE TANGO Weekly classes every Tuesday (at 8 PM) $8.00 per person,
taught by Daniel & Graciela at Organizacion Cultural Argentina De Palm Beach,
6295 Lake Worth Road, Pine Brook Square Shopping Center, (watch for large
TACO BELL sign in front of the shopping center, on the North side of Lake
Worth Road !) Exit off Florida Turnpike to Lake Worth Rd. Travel East
(towards ocean) Abundant Free Parking immediately adjacent. Beginners
through Intermediate level; Partners not required. Tel (407) 966-7640 There
is a "family atmosphere" at the Cultural Center.
NEW....NEW...NEW.ARGENTINE TANGO....NEW..NEW....NEW....Starting June8th and
each first and 4th Saturday evening at 9:00PM at the Seville Hotel, 2901
Collins Avenue, Miami Beach, Florilda, Daniel & Graciela will be your
host/hostess for a Milonga (a Tango Dance Party) to recorded music over
excellent speakers. Although these events are planned to run regularly each
1st and 4th Saturday evening of each month, I recommend that you phone the
hotel to confirm that the event is taking place on that Saturday evening you
plan to attend. Directions: From I-95 to 195. East on 195 (towards the
beach) (turns into Arthur Godfrey Road) over the bridge all the way to Indian
Creek Drive, RT/South onto Indian Creek Drive (turns into Collins Ave. ) at
about 29th St. The seville Hotel is located on corner of Collins Ave & 29th
St. Valet Parking $5.50 Phone (305) 532-2511 Call to confirm the directions,
and that on the evening you plan to attend the event will take place. No
reservations. Come early. First come! First served! It gets crowded. You
can dance til 3:00 AM. Big hotel atmosphere.
Please keep in mind that the Florida Dance crowd is a "mature" culture. You
will see a lot of gray hair and not a lot of under aged 30. All places I
attended I felt quite secure and safe and would certainly say that
unescorted ladies attending these dances should find the environment
similarly wholesome. Some nights there are more men partners available than
others. When you phone to confirm times, do check out the best session for
singles. (I have rarely found that there is an abundance of good men dancers
at any dance place in Florida.) The most active season for the aforementioned
dance places in Florida are from November thru March, when the temperatures
stay in the 65 to 80 degree range and all the visitors from cold northern
climes seek the milder weather of the "Sunshine State".
Good Luck,
Arthur
AHGberg @aol.com
West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960612103708.31467A-100000 @namu24.gwdg.de>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:47:33 +0200
From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" <hangleit @namu24.gwdg.de>
Subject: Record prices
Hi!
I will be in Oregon in August and am wondering if I should buy some
Tango-Music in there.
The prices of A.T.-CDs here are $20 and up, if you don't want same
funny Tangosampler which is not very danceable, but stuff like FM Tango
or so. So I would like to know about the prices in the US - is there a
big difference to the german prices?
[German on]
Falls ein deutscher Leser dieser Liste eine billige Quelle hat, bin ich
fuer Informationen sehr dankbar.
[german off]
Thanks
ralph
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph J. Hangleiter PGP-key Brueder-Grimm-Allee 57
hangleit @math.uni-goettingen.de available D-37075 Goettingen, Germany
http://www.num.math.uni-goettingen.de/hangleit/ (+49) 551 54 16 09
Message-Id: <199606120948.LAA01520 @calefon.pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:48:15 +0200
From: Luis Mandel <mandel @informatik.uni-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Record prices
In-Reply-To: <199606120851.KAA06133 @lionsden.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> from
"Ralph J. Hangleiter" at Jun 12, 96 10:47:33 am
Segun dice Ralph J. Hangleiter:
>
> Hi!
>
> I will be in Oregon in August and am wondering if I should buy some
> Tango-Music in there.
> The prices of A.T.-CDs here are $20 and up, if you don't want same
> funny Tangosampler which is not very danceable, but stuff like FM Tango
> or so. So I would like to know about the prices in the US - is there a
> big difference to the german prices?
>
> [German on]
> Falls ein deutscher Leser dieser Liste eine billige Quelle hat, bin ich
> fuer Informationen sehr dankbar.
> [german off]
>
You should visit Zweitausendseins. They have a couple of tango CD at
low price. For example:
. Tango: Argentina
. Sexteto Mayor I
. Sexteto Mayor II
. Any from Piazzolla
and more.
The prices are at around 15 DM each (besides those from sexteto mayor
which are more expensive).
Regards, Luis
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| /// Luis Mandel mandel @informatik.uni-muenchen.de |
| (. .) http://www.pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de/~mandel |
+oOO-(_)-OOo------------------------------------------------------+
Message-Id: <9606121920.AA01742 @mls-5.informix.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 12:20:27 -0700
From: Polo Talnir <polo @informix.com>
Subject: Re: Record prices
Hello Ralph,
>From my sampler of record stores in Europe, prices there are a rip-off
as a rule. For all the CDs that I have seen sold both in US and Europe
the final (i.e. including taxes) prices are consistently higher in
Europe by at least 35%. As an example, the Sexteto Mayor yellow CD
is sold in FNAC (Paris) for 112FF, that is > $22 (at any rate I found)
It is sold for $14.99 in Tower Records in California. That is ~$16 with
tax. The difference is 38%. Tower has recently increased the prices and
is one of the expensive record stores here. You can get this CD for
$12.99 elsewhere.
You may not find what you want during your stay, though. So there may
be reasons to pay more ... Also, some stuff never makes it to US.
I am not sure whether in Oregon this might be different. But I suspect
that Oregon, being more of a "province" :-), may have less choice
and higher prices than California. By the way, if you are already in
Oregon, San Francisco is just a 1hr flight (perhaps $59) from Portland.
Come over and visit "the other BA". Lotsa good Tango stuff going on here:
2 Stanford Tango weeks (completely booked already)
1 Tango Intensivo week
Several guest teachers (we have Rodolfo & Maria Cieri, from the
Club Akarense in Buenos Aires, giving workshops in classes in various
places around, the first one was in La Milonguita last Monday, and the
party was a blast!. Nito y Elba dropped in -they will be teaching at
Stanford-, we had some La Cumparsita solos by various known couples,
like Nito & Elba, Rodolfo & Maria and Jorge & Rosa Ledesma that are
going to teach in Tango Intensivo. Rodolfo & Maria treated La Miloguita
tangueros with La Cumparsita danced in canyengue style. What a treat!)
C'mon, be a good sports. Join us in California for a couple of days!.
-Polo
"La Milonguita"
polo @informix.com
Message-Id: <9606122134.AA01833 @mls-5.informix.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:34:55 -0700
From: Polo Talnir <polo @informix.com>
Subject: Re: Record prices
Sorry if you get this twice. I did not get my message back, so that I
sent this again ...
Hello Ralph,
>From my sampler of (quite a few) record stores in Europe, prices there
are a rip-off as a rule.
For all the CDs that I have seen that are sold both in US and Europe,
the final (i.e. including taxes) prices are consistently higher in
Europe by at least 35%. As an example, the Sexteto Mayor yellow CD
is sold in FNAC (Paris) for 112FF, that is > $22 (at any rate I found)
It is sold for $14.99 in Tower Records in California. That is ~$16 with
tax. The difference is 38%. Tower has recently increased the prices and
is now one of the expensive record stores here. You can get this CD for
$12.99 elsewhere.
You may not find what you want during your stay, though. So there may
be reasons to pay more ... Also, some stuff never makes it to US.
I am not sure whether in Oregon this might be different. But I suspect
that Oregon, being more of a "province" :-), may have less choice
and higher prices than California. By the way, if you are already in
Oregon, San Francisco is just a 1hr flight (perhaps $59) from Portland.
Come over and visit "the other BA". Lotsa good Tango stuff going on here:
2 Stanford Tango weeks (completely booked already)
1 Tango Intensivo week
Several guest teachers (we have Rodolfo & Maria Cieri, from the
Club Akarense in Buenos Aires, giving workshops in classes in various
places around, the first one was in La Milonguita last Monday, and the
party was a blast!. Nito y Elba dropped in -they will be teaching at
Stanford-, we had some La Cumparsita solos by various known couples,
like Nito & Elba, Rodolfo & Maria and Jorge & Rosa Ledesma that are
going to teach in Tango Intensivo. Rodolfo & Maria treated La Milonguita
tangueros with La Cumparsita danced in canyengue style. What a treat!)
C'mon, be a good sports. Join us in California for a couple of days!.
-Polo
"La Milonguita"
polo @informix.com
Message-Id: <199606122203.AA21877 @halcyon.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 15:03:53 -0900
From: Andre Gene Samson <agsamson @halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Perfumes de Tango
To all,
If the same staff I saw in BsAs is touring with Tango X 2, all would be
(excluding the Orquestra for brevity):
Miguel Angel Zotto y Milena Plebs
Natalia Games Y Gabriel Angio
Lorena Ermocida y Omar Merlo
Cantante: Roxana Fontan
David A.H. Ducheyne wrote:
>* It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet.
>* Some of the steps could not have been unprepared. So it was more =
>choreography than real tango.
>* They performed tango with three (two men and one woman). Impressive =
>but tango ?
In BsAs, it was very well performed Fanatasia or Stage Tango, and I tend to
think none or very little was imrovised. In BsAs the theatrical
presentation was also great.
David, did they perform the piece with the dimly backlit scrim, two couples
creating the illusion of a reflected or shadowed image? Hard to describe
but very creative and moving.
Andre
--
agsamson @halcyon.com
Seattle, WA
Message-Id: <199606122157.RAA14417 @chinook.Generation.NET>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:57:45 -0400
From: daniel saindon <gardien @Generation.NET>
Subject: Tango at the Montreal Jazz Festival !
News Bulletin No. 05
Tango.Montreal.QC.CA
Re: The Montreal Jazz Festival from June 27 to July 7 / 1996
Among the many ( 300 ) outdoor concerts that will be presented this year at
the Montreal Jazz Festival, there will be two groups of tango, well known
internationally, that will be giving free concerts:
Quartango ( of Montreal ) and the Sexteto Canyengue ( from the Netherlands ).
They will be playing for the people who will surround their stage which will
be located on Saint-Urbain Street, within the outdoor delimitations of the
Jazz Festival.
Quartango of Montreal will appear every night between June 27 and June 30.
Their show is scheduled for 20:00 hrs.
The Sexteto Canyengue ( Netherlands ) will play at the same outdoor location
between July 4 and July 7. The concert will also begin at 20:00 hrs.
If you would like to get other information about the Montreal Jazz Festival,
consult their web site at:
http://www.montrealj
azzfestival.worldlinx.com/
Or check our web page on the subject, NEXT WEEK. ( @tango.montreal.qc.ca )
See you at the Montreal Jazz Festival !
Daniel Saindon
gardien @tango.montreal.qc.ca
Message-Id: <199606130038.RAA01388 @milongas.eng.sun.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:38:46 -0700
From: "C. F." <tanguero @milongas.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: FAQ Tango Terms - Addendum
>>From: Jan Dirk van Abshoven <cadena @artnet.xs4all.nl>
Dear Jan,
I just came across an interesting tidbit about the Tango Liso
that perhaps ought to be included in the FAQ. In my previous posting I
wrote:
Tango Liso: A way of dancing tango characterized by its lack of fancy
figures or patterns. Only the most "basic" tango steps and figures
are utilized, e.g., caminadas, ochos, molinetes, etc. Ganchos, sacadas,
boleos and other fancy moves (such as leaps, sentadas, and all
acrobatics in general) are not done.
Well, here's a historical note:
"Around the year 1880, after the revolution, the tango resurged with more
impetus, surpassing the limits of the arrabal [outskirts] and planting
itself in the center of the city [of Buenos Aires]. Eventhough it was prohibited
to run dance halls, some of them were established in the tenebrous barrio of
Corrientes which, as it was known, was the center for the vice locales.
They adopted the system of covering the organ grinder with a mattress so that
the sound would not reach the street nor the ears of the police, an unbelievable
thing since they [the police] knew about it and consented to it.
The "Stella di Roma" in Corrientes and Uruguay, known for the dance of Pepin,
was the first one to establish itself and the most popular one because of
the attraction of the sisters Rosa and Maria Balbina. Later on, the "Scudo de
Italia" got started where it is now the theater Apolo, the "Benevolenza" across
from the Roma, the "la casa de Provin", the "Puentecito", and others that were
short lived, because after some time, the police closed them down, but not
before their owners became wealthy.
In this barrio the tango underwent great innovations, changing not only
its figures, but also its elasticity and side movements, which were its
most interesting characteristic in the beginning. Interpreted mostly by
young ladies for the most part from Italy, they couldn't adapt themselves to
the movements impressed by the criollos de cepa [the born locals] and that's
when it [this style] was given the name of "tango liso". The modification
became almost general, loosing the primitive air. It is because of this that
many of those who danced there were failures in the Academias."
Viejo Tanguero, in an article printed by the newspaper "Critica" on
September 22, 1913, Bs. As. and often quoted by Jose Gobello and a host
of tango scholars.
Vale.
-----
C.F.
Message-Id: <199606130047.RAA01403 @milongas.eng.sun.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:47:39 -0700
From: "C. F." <tanguero @milongas.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: FAQ Tango Terms - Polo Talnir's posting
Dear Polo,
I must apologize for not answering your message of Thursday 6th right
away, my computer was sick and I didn't get to read your message until late
yesterday. Conforming to the old adage, "better late than never" here's my
response to your comments.
First of all let me state that my intention was to provide some definitions
but by no means *the* definitions. That's why I preambled my posting with:
"Since you asked, here are *my* definitions, i.e., those who know more
may disagree.... :^)"
think of them as educated opinions, nothing else. You, on the other hand,
saw them differently:
>>The reason for my posting is to warn/clarify/share a few views (mostly not
>>really mine) regarding a couple of definitions that the beloved anonymous
>>tanguera/o Caran put forward. As this compilation of terms/definitions/
>>translations may eventually become a source of "information" for someone
>>new to the Tango theme, I feel that any inaccuracies and differences in
>>views must be made clear, at a minimum in an attempt to avoid biased, even
>>erroneous information, as well as to separate opinions from facts, as much
>>as possible.
That's mighty noble of you. It is always a delight when one of the self-
appointed tango gurus comes down from tango heaven to bestow a few scraps
of knowledge on us poor mortals. I for one get all choked up with emotion.
I just have one question, where were you when the request for input to the
FAQ was made? If you had responded promptly with your version of THE WORD
then perhaps no erroneous information would have been submitted, or God
forbid, opinions rather than facts; then we could all rest at ease safe
in the knowledge that the FAQ was correct thanks to you.
>>Canyengue:
>> As the attempt was to translate/explain Tango dancing terms, I believe
>> that the only applicable definition was the second:
>> A way of interpreting or dancing tango.
>> Unfortunately, what characterizes this way of dancing Tango is not
>> explained.
That's your opinion. As a tango lover I'm interested in all aspects of
the tango, i.e., music, history, dance, lore, philosophy, etc. I believe
that since the tango-l membership is not limited to tango dancers then
the FAQ should cover more than tango dancing terms. Now, I find that
if trying to describe a single pattern, e.g., the salida, is hard enough
to require dozens of messages, then trying to describe a whole way of
dancing in this medium is futile. To wit, your reference to Carlos Gavito
describing canyengue as "this style is characterized by long, sliding steps,
including some upper body sways following the music." can be easily applied to
the waltz, or any number of dances.
>>Milonguero:
>> Caran's definition: "A man who likes to attend the milongas"
Not just mine. See Jose Gobello's Nuevo Diccionario Lunfardo, pp. 171.:
"Milonguero: payador pueblero; individuo afecto a concurrir a bailes."
>> Does not bump into other dancing couples and does not
>> send his partner to bump into them either.
Now, having myself being stepped on and bumped into by Carlos Gavito at several
Bay Area milongas does not make him less of a milonguero in my eyes.... :^)
>>Tango de Salon:
>> I wonder whether Caran is attempting to describe here Tango de Salon as
>> understood in the San Francisco Bay Area (US) or somewhere else. This
>> certainly does not describe Tango de Salon, either way (milonguero or
>> posibilidad infinita) in BsAs.
That may be the case but Bs. As. does not hold a monopoly on tango. Neither
does the SF Bay Area or any other region or country you care to mention. The
points I tried to make were these: Tango de Salon has a distinct look. It is
different from the tango arrabalero. It got started away from its country
of origin. The original Tango de Salon addressed the social codes in fashion
in Paris and England in the early part of the XX century, i.e., dancers kept
a "proper" distance between themselves.
>>Tango Danza:
I suspect that Assuncao is right. The definition then should be modified
to include: "Tango Danza: formalization of the study and dance of Argentine
Tango." Nevertheless, my direct translation is also valid.
>>Tango Orillero:
>> This seems to be another controversial topic. While the first sentence:
>> Orillero means "of the outskirts".
>> seem to be broadly accepted, the second one:
>> Thus, this was a style of
>> dancing tango that was "outside" of the prevalent way of dancing.
>> included the word "prevalent" which requires some justification, absent
>> in the "definition".
Your clarification is a good one.
>> Regarding the last two lines of the "definition" of Tango orillero:
>> Nowadays, is more defined by its quick moves, kicks, and acrobatics.
>> See "Juan Bruno" for more details.... ;-)
>> I attended Stanford Tango Week last year, and collected some video clips
>> from Juan Bruno's demos and explanations. I also have DTrenner's video
>> of Juan Bruno, a gentleman that I respect and like very much.
So? My intention by mentioning Juan Bruno's name was to point people in the
direction of the only teacher I know who teaches this style. The winky was
placed there to denote levity at the thought of having "Juan Bruno" as an
entry in the FAQ with a proper definition and all. I guess I'm missing the
relevance of your comment. What's your point? are you going to transcribe
some of Bruno's explanations for the FAQ?
>> The whole story of kicks, jumps and little acrobatics that Don Bruno
>> makes, are not in Gavito's book of orillero style. Actually, he *strongly*
>> disagrees with this definition, along with a few other observations that
>> are not to the point here.
Until another teacher comes along or another dancer calls what s/he does
"orillero style" the only point of reference we have is Juan Bruno's.
See 'ya around Lopo.
Vale.
-----
C.F.
Message-Id: <199606130527.AAA03300 @siswat.compact.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:27:43 -0500
From: "A. Lester Buck III" <buck @compact.com>
Subject: Tango by the Bay flyer in ASCII
I received the Tango by the Bay flyer since I am registered for
Tango Week, and I typed it in for our local Houston email list. I
don't think I have seen it go by on Tango-L, so in case anyone needs
the information on the flyer, here it is.
Regards,
Lester
--
A. Lester Buck buck @compact.com
---------------8<--------------8<--------------8<--------------8<--------------
The Bay Area Argentine Tango Association presents
T A N G O B Y T H E B A Y
A Gala Ball
"El tango es una posibilidad infinita"
Leopoldo Marechal
Saturday, July 13, 1996
8pm to 1am
in the historic
Crystal Ballroom of the Ramada Hotel
1231 Market Street (at 8th)
San Francisco, CA
Dancing to the New York Tango Trio Plus One
See the Spectacular Tango Show Extravaganza:
La Posibilidad Infinita de Tango
Tango Attire
Black Tie Optional
Beautiful Dance Floor
No Host Bar
Light Buffet
Ample Parking
All night parking with security, $6, at Trinity Plaza Apts.
1169 Market (Enter on 8th)
Reserve Now, space is limited
This event has sold out every year!
NO VIDEO CAMERAS PLEASE
Aficionado & Tanguero Members of B.A. Tango
and Stanford Tango Week participants....................... $35.00
All Others, in advance..................................... $40.00
At the door, space permitting.............................. $45.00
RESERVATION FORM
Name________________________________________
Address_____________________________________
City________________________Zip_____________
Phone(day)________________(eve)_____________
Number of Tickets___________________________
Check Enclosed $___________________________
Make checks payable and mail to:
B. A. Tango
1935 Franklin Street #507
San Francisco, CA 94109
NOTE: REFUNDS ONLY IF REQUESTED BY JULY 11th
For information & inquiries about reserving tables,
call Elaine at (415) 776-9373.
30 Rooms have been set aside, at a discount, for those attending
Tango by the Bay. Call the Ramada Hotel at (800) 228-2828 or (415)
626-8000. Be sure to mention "Tango by the Bay."
Message-Id: <v01530501ade59618e286 @[204.50.51.20]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:11:08 -0400
From: Pierre-Paul Provencher and Laurie Rosewarne <arcana @sonetis.com>
Subject: Norteno at the Montreal Jazz Festival
Yesterday, Daniel Saindon posted news about tango at the Montreal Jazz Festi=
val.
However, there are not "two" tango groups performing, but at least THREE.
The Ottawa-based =ABnew tango=BB ensemble NORTENO has been invited to play=
in
the prestigious Festival International de Jazz de Montreal. The ensemble
will perform on July 1, 2, and 3, 1996, at 8 p.m. in the =AB Les Brunantes
Air Canada =BB series, at the Terrasse Air Canada of Place des Arts in
Montreal.
The members of Norteno are: Pierre-Paul Provencher (bandoneon), Laurie
Rosewarne (piano), Solange Tremblay (violin), Garry Elliott (electric
guitar), and Nicolas Tremblay (double bass).
The group was founded in 1993.
In Montreal, Norteno will perform pieces by Astor Piazzolla, and
Pierre-Paul Provencher, the bandoneonist of the ensemble.
=46or more information, please consult Norteno's page on the internet at
http://www.sonetis.com/~arcana/Norteno.html
***
oooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooo ARCANA oooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooo=
o
Laurie Rosewarne & Pierre-Paul Provencher
email: arcana @sonetis.com
Web Pages: http://www.sonetis.com/~arcana/arcana.html
http://www.sonetis.com/~arcana/Norteno.html
680, bd Saint-Joseph, #1600, Hull (Quebec) CANADA J8Y =
4A9
Tel.: (819) 770-9420
Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960613202752.35bf5384 @mail.teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:27:52 -0700
From: Clay Nelson <claybird @teleport.com>
Subject: Record Prices
>I will be in Oregon in August and am wondering if I should buy some
>Tango-Music in there.
> The prices of A.T.-CDs here are $20 and up, if you don't want same
>funny Tangosampler which is not very danceable, but stuff like FM Tango
>or so. So I would like to know about the prices in the US - is there a
>big difference to the german prices?
Don't bother looking for anything significant Tango-wise in Oregon. Best
bet is to fly down to San Fransisco or order from Daniel Trenner.
clay
*** ARGENTINE TANGO *** BALLROOM *** COUNTRY/WESTERN *** LATIN *** SWING ***
Clay's Dance Studio ----------------- WWW: http://www.teleport.com/~claybird
6959 SW Multnomah Blvd ------------------------ Email: claybird @teleport.com
Portland, OR 97223 ----------------------------------- Phone: (503) 292-0371
------------ (Ballroom dancing--the ultimate contact sport!) -------------
Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960613202757.34777928 @mail.teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:27:57 -0700
From: Clay Nelson <claybird @teleport.com>
Subject: Name that tune?
Was looking at Daniel Trenner's video of the teachers in B.A. on their trip
in (I think) '93. There's a nice dance by Olga and Gustavo. Can anyone
tell me the name and artist of the tango they are dancing to? Daniel--are
you out there?
clay
*** ARGENTINE TANGO *** BALLROOM *** COUNTRY/WESTERN *** LATIN *** SWING ***
Clay's Dance Studio ----------------- WWW: http://www.teleport.com/~claybird
6959 SW Multnomah Blvd ------------------------ Email: claybird @teleport.com
Portland, OR 97223 ----------------------------------- Phone: (503) 292-0371
------------ (Ballroom dancing--the ultimate contact sport!) -------------
Message-Id: <9606131800.ZM6599 @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:00:47 -0700
From: Larry Carroll <larryc @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Perfumes de Tango
David, was the "Perfumes de Tango" CD on sale at the show?
Does anyone know where I could get extra copies of the CD?
Larry de Los Angeles
--
Message-Id: <9606131802.ZM6775 @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:02:05 -0700
From: Larry Carroll <larryc @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Perfumes de Tango
David Ducheyne says
> I attended the tango show 'Perfumes de Tango' in Brussels.
> It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet. ... more choreography than real
tango.
There goes that binary thinking again! The Tango Gods will blight your
enganches
if you keep on doing it!
The reality is that Real Tango is richly complex, encompassing many kinds of
music, many kinds of dance. To say that one part of it is REAL & all the others
FAKE is to make a fundamental intellectual mistake.
Robert Blais says
> "Perfumes de Tango" ... show[s] on stage different aspects of the tango
> as it is performed on stage or in the milongas.
It also includes homage to other aspects of tango. For instance, to
Argentine show dancers Frank (Francisco?) & Yolanda Veloz, with a
performance that uses much the same choreography as their "Tango Americano"
performance in the American movie "Pride of the Yankees," starring Gary
Cooper as Lou Gehrig.
Apparently Zotto & Plebs have a good deal of choreographed routines from
which they select what they'll do in a particular show.
They're known not only as show dancers but also social dancers. When they
visited Los Angeles a few months ago they attended three milongas & danced
with some of the locals. Their style was very simple, mostly walking & not
even very many ochos, but they moved so smoothly & in tune with the music
that I had to turn away to keep from tears.
Larry de Los Angeles
--
Message-Id: <199606140524.BAA14009 @smtp2.interramp.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:24:02 -0400
From: Bob Dronski <bdronski @interramp.com>
Subject: Re: Perfumes de Tango
Larry,
You asked about copies of Perfumes de Tango availability.
I do remember that Danel & Maria HAD copies, although it's not mentioned
in the current Tango Times. Also, I believe that Janis Kenyon (who's
involved in the Ohio fastival) also had some available a few months ago
as well (708) 577-0851.
As for my copy, don't even think about it! My wife will protect it with
extremely deadly ganchos if necessary! ;-)
Hope this helps!
Chico
Message-Id: <v02130500ade6ebee7a74 @[132.236.110.25]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:20:03 -0400
From: "David G. Way" <dgw2 @cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Perfumes de Tango
At 6:02 PM 6/13/96, Larry Carroll wrote:
>David Ducheyne says
>
>> I attended the tango show 'Perfumes de Tango' in Brussels.
>> It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet. ... more choreography than real
>tango.
>
>There goes that binary thinking again! The Tango Gods will blight your
>enganches
>if you keep on doing it!
[message cut]
I'm mostly a lurker on this list as I have not the patience of those who
engage in the lengthy, detailed discussions I keep seeing (& deleting) on
this list. However, with Mr. Carrol's constant harping on binary thinking,
I couldn't help [:)] pointing out the binary thinking behind his recent
posting I've enclosed below:
[message sent 6/10/96]
"But watching dancers does lead one to speculate about how they'd be as
lovers. I suspect the way people dance tells a lot. After all, you
don't magically change to someone else when you get on the dance floor.
Is s/he fierce & energetic, or gentle & slow? Is s/he ALWAYS fierce,
or ALWAYS gentle, or does s/he have the flexibility of spirit to be
either? Does s/he obviously have very strong (positive or negative)
emotions (maybe hysterically so), or is s/he cold & neutral & flat?"
This message is being sent with the same degree of seriousness as I invest
in reading such discussions.
David G. Way
Director of Instructional Support
Cornell University
dgw2 @cornell.edu
400 CCC
Ithaca, NY 14853
(607) 255-2663
Message-Id: <FA84C82AB8 @mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:06:27 GMT-0100
From: Eckart Haerter <ZGG @mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Subject: Re: Dancers - lovers
David G. Way mailed the following:
> At 6:02 PM 6/13/96, Larry Carroll wrote:
> >David Ducheyne says
> >
> >> I attended the tango show 'Perfumes de Tango' in Brussels.
> >> It wasn't tango anymore, it was ballet. ... more choreography than real
> >tango.
> >
> >There goes that binary thinking again! The Tango Gods will blight your
> >enganches
> >if you keep on doing it!
>
> [message cut]
David G. Way wrote:
> I'm mostly a lurker on this list as I have not the patience of those who
> engage in the lengthy, detailed discussions I keep seeing (& deleting) on
> this list. However, with Mr. Carrol's constant harping on binary thinking,
> I couldn't help [:)] pointing out the binary thinking behind his recent
> posting I've enclosed below:
>
> [message sent 6/10/96]
>
> "But watching dancers does lead one to speculate about how they'd be as
> lovers. I suspect the way people dance tells a lot. After all, you
> don't magically change to someone else when you get on the dance floor.
>
> Is s/he fierce & energetic, or gentle & slow? Is s/he ALWAYS fierce,
> or ALWAYS gentle, or does s/he have the flexibility of spirit to be
> either? Does s/he obviously have very strong (positive or negative)
> emotions (maybe hysterically so), or is s/he cold & neutral & flat?"
>
> This message is being sent with the same degree of seriousness as I invest
> in reading such discussions.
>
>
>
>
> David G. Way
> Director of Instructional Support
> Cornell University
> dgw2 @cornell.edu
> 400 CCC
> Ithaca, NY 14853
> (607) 255-2663
I would like to add to Mr. Carroll's comparisons: Is s/he acrobatic
and sportive? Does s/he like fancy stuff or simply plain patterns
(the 8 count basic) ? Does she respond with ochos or ganchos ?
Does she prefer sentadas ? Does he master the figure of "abrelatas" ?
(I'm prepared to explain in the list of tango terms, if unknown).
Eckart Haerter,
Goettingen, Germany
...............................................
Haerter:
zgg @mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de
http://haerter-tango.schlund.de
Message-Id: <9606142055.AA02230 @mls-5.informix.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:55:50 -0700
From: Polo Talnir <polo @informix.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ Tango Terms - On Facts, opinions and beliefs
This is a reply to Caran Fanfunfa's posting of June 12.
Hola Caran!!
I was surprised to see no return ball from you. That would not fit my concept
of a good ball-game player that I have about you.
I tried to be short. :-) (anyone that knows me must be laughing by now ...)
I did not succeed though ... ( yeah, yeah ... completely expected from Polo)
I will try to clarify, and also apologize because of the misunderstandings
that this medium, which lacks the ability to convey tone of voice, facial
expressions and body language, can generate. It is only my lack of writing
ability what lets these misunderstandings happen.
>> First of all let me state that my intention was to provide some definitions
>> but by no means *the* definitions.
>> think of them as educated opinions, nothing else.
>> You, on the other hand, saw them differently:
No pibe, I fully understood what you meant. I apologize for conveying the
wrong impression. That's why I just answered with mine, and quoted other's,
*opinions*. I don't believe in ANYONE knowing THE TRUTH. Frankly I don't
think there is such a thing in Tango. In ANYONE I include everyone. Even
learned people (e.g. Prof. Fernando Assuncao that I quote) has his book
plagued with opinions. Some may have more of a historical foundation than
others.
>> That's mighty noble of you. It is always a delight when one of the self-
>> appointed tango gurus comes down from tango heaven to bestow a few scraps
>> of knowledge on us poor mortals. I for one get all choked up with emotion.
I think your sarcasm is so out of place that after a very short "shock" I
started to laugh. Aren't you taking all this too seriously?. I do not
position myself as a Tango guru, and actually I do not think that there is
such an animal, and I don't believe that there was anything in my mail
that could be sanely construed as such self appointment.
Your sarcasm also puts you in a position of judging my knowledge
or authority (of which I claim none). And I explicitly object your
assuming such a judgemental position. I don't have any reason to believe
that you can judge me or anyone else's knowledge about Tango.
I won't let it go without saying that the purpose of this list, I think,
is to accept contributions from the knowledge "bag" of anyone that has
something to contribute. I have some ==> I try to share. If you can not
accept that when you post your contribution, someone else may disagree or
complement what you said, then you always have the option not to contribute.
Making a statement and then attempting to shut other people up by making
accusations of "self-appointed guru", is improper, lacks good taste
and is absolutely unacceptable.
About the "self-appointed Tango guru" stuff. From where did you get
the impression that I appointed myself as a Tango guru?. I think that your
sarcasm may cause anyone that has an opinion or piece of knowledge to share,
to refrain from sharing it, because Prof. Caran Fanfunfa, who does not
even reveal his/her identity, or other list readers, may think that the
contribution is a "show off" or a "self appointment as a guru". This would
be sad. Caran: would you and the other traffic controllers here give us
a break?. I said:
>>The reason for my posting is to warn/clarify/share a few views (mostly not
>>really mine)
Did you understand then that I was mostly quoting others than expressing
opinions?. Then, your conclusion of my self-appointment as a guru, is
apparently an emotional response. I guess that it was not easy for you
to know that some of your definitions were "controversial". Not clear to
me why you take this so seriously though.
Let me make an observation regarding "Tango gurus":
Among Tango people there are very few "universally" accepted authorities.
The tangueros are apparently so opinionated that can not easily accept
the "authority" of anyone else. Narrowing this down to dancers, it is
easy to hear in private conversations one top-notch dancer say about
another top-notch dancer that he/she does not know Tango, how to dance, etc...
(for all the judges in tango-l that need a caveat with every ....ing word
anyone else writes, "top-notch" is a judgemental statement and represents
MY view of Tango quality ... Verstehst Du? )
To end this useless exchange of sarcasm and response, let me tell you that
your opinions, in spite of your defensive remark
"Since you asked, here are *my* definitions, i.e., those who know more
may disagree.... :^)"
do not sound anywhere less in the style of a self-appointed guru, than mine.
Yet I did not attack you as you do attack me.
As a rule, where I quote someone, I normally note who I am quoting.
If there is no such note, it may be that 1. I forgot to make the
note or 2. it is my opinion/impression/belief. You can take any
assertion without a quote/note as mine. And, as by now everybody knows,
I am not entitled to put the assertion forward as a fact, because C.F.
did not grant me the status of a guru. Therefore take the assertion
without a note as my opinion. Is all clear now?. This is a blanket
disclaimer, quite equivalent to yours, quoted above. It should be
sufficient then to satisfy you, I guess.
>> I just have one question, where were you when the request for input to the
>> FAQ was made? If you had responded promptly with your version of THE WORD
>> then perhaps no erroneous information would have been submitted, or God
>> forbid, opinions rather than facts; then we could all rest at ease safe
>> in the knowledge that the FAQ was correct thanks to you.
This is another comment with undue sarcastic content. This time I will
ignore the sarcasm and answer the question.
I did not contribute to the FAQ because I count myself among those in this
list that think that definitions of Tango terms do not have great value when
it comes to dance steps. I think of Tango more as an intuitive dance.
Naming steps conveys in my view a message of Tango as a formal dance,
eg. ballet or something like that, which is not. (add here "in my opinion" -
isn't this becoming annoying ?).
"Now I will do a calesita, then end with a rulo, leading her into
a forward ocho, planting a chilena while she is in position number
3". Can I write this in C++ ?. Sounds like a program to me. I feel that
it would be sad to dance while thinking like in the quotes.
The intention of my note (I am getting tired of apologizing and explaining
to defend myself from your attack) was not to criticize your opinions, but
rather to complement them. I had a good number of responses that clearly
show that this is the way that the responders received it. It seems that
your sarcastic attack was grossly misplaced. I apologize to you if I
offended you with my additions/commentary to your posting. None had as
an objective to make you look unknowledgeable. What you care anyhow: few
really know your real identity.
I will repeat the motivation for my posting:
>> I feel that any inaccuracies and differences in
>> views must be made clear, at a minimum in an attempt to avoid biased, even
>> erroneous information, as well as to separate opinions from facts, as much
>> as possible.
Meaning: if there is no such list, then everyone is happy with what she/he
understands. If there is a list of "definitions", as I am aware of other
opinions about some of the "definitions" you contributed, I bring these
other opinions up for completeness & accuracy.
Otherwise, someone may think that these opinions are universally accepted
or something. Note that I am only explaining here. I firmly support the
motivation for my previous posting in the terms, syntax and spirit I put it
above. Not a single changed letter.
As time permits, I will continue posting comments to your postings,
correcting/augmenting what needs (again, "in my opinion") to be
corrected/augmented. I don't need nor ask your permission for that.
This is a public forum. Your sarcasm is not going to prevent me from
explaining why I am writing something, or from writing it. If you choose
to believe that I appointed myself as a guru, so be it. I only remind
you that this medium is two-ways. If you demand from me, through sarcastic
remarks, to write on each second phrase "in my opinion", I may start
making similar sarcastic remarks about every posting you send, every
sentence you write without a similar "in my opinion" caveat and without
a reference to someone else's work. "Here is Caran the guru's word.
Thanks Caran for sharing your definitions and opinions with us, simple
mortals", etc...
It will be uncomfortable for everyone, but I may do it, so that you don't
keep the wrong impression that with sarcastic attacks you can shut other
people's mouth up.
>> >>Milonguero:
>> >> Caran's definition: "A man who likes to attend the milongas"
>>
>> Not just mine. See Jose Gobello's Nuevo Diccionario Lunfardo, pp. 171.:
>> "Milonguero: payador pueblero; individuo afecto a concurrir a bailes."
I just quoted two people that recognize each other as milongueros. I
heard others that know them and recognize them as milongueros as well.
I did not even make a judgement regarding the truth of their assertion.
Just mentioned that according to this two person's views, the definition
would be inaccurate.
I don't know whether Gobello dances or is aware of this sort of "nobility
title" that the word seems to connote among milongueros.
>> >> Does not bump into other dancing couples and does not
>> >> send his partner to bump into them either.
>>
>> Now, having myself being stepped on and bumped into by Carlos Gavito at
>> several Bay Area milongas does not make him less of a milonguero in my
>> eyes.... :^)
I won't express an opinion regarding the connection, or lack thereof,
between what a person says and what that person actually does. I quoted
what Gavito and Cacho told me. I did not try to judge whether any of
them do what they say. Besides, when there is a bump in the dance floor,
it is not necessarily the case that it is *the other guy's* fault.
>> are you going to transcribe some of Bruno's explanations for the FAQ?
no
>>>> The whole story of kicks, jumps and little acrobatics that Don Bruno
>>>> makes, are not in Gavito's book of orillero style.
>>
>> Until another teacher comes along or another dancer calls what s/he does
>> "orillero style" the only point of reference we have is Juan Bruno's.
We have currently visiting in the Bay Area Rodolfo & Maria Cieri, a veteran
couple that runs Club Akarense in Villa Urquiza on Sundays. They gave a
demonstration of orillero style in Nora's milonga last Saturday. What I
saw is close to what Don Bruno showed in Stanford, but indeed without the
kicks, jumps and little acrobatics. Nevertheless, I have no way of knowing
whether the absence of these is because they do not belong to the style
or because Rodolfo did not feel like doing them at that point in time, or
perhaps because Rodolfo's physique does not allow him to do the extra stuff
or ... I will ask Rodolfo to explain this to me in words, and then I will
share this with the tango-l crowd.
(yes, Caran, I will graciously descend from the Tango heavens and
bestow this scrap of information on you, the poor mortals - GMAB!)
>> As a tango lover I'm interested in all aspects of
>> the tango, i.e., music, history, dance, lore, philosophy, etc. I believe
>> that since the tango-l membership is not limited to tango dancers then
>> the FAQ should cover more than tango dancing terms.
I share with you the love for Tango. The initial invitation for contributions
for the list of terms was for dancing terms. You are changing the scope of
the original project. That is what I meant. With the enlarged scope that you
propose, the list of terms would indeed have room for additional definitions
of terms that apply to elements in Tango other than the dance.
>> To wit, your reference to Carlos Gavito
>> describing canyengue as "this style is characterized by long, sliding steps,
>> including some upper body sways following the music." can be easily
>> applied to the waltz, or any number of dances.
I completely agree with you. I talked to you precisely about this the other
day. This explanation plainly contradicts my own remark about the "lengthy,
intractable" descriptions of moves and body language.
-----------
May I express a wish that people in this list leave out the sarcasm and
the information-free remarks (hopefully I will be able to leave this
very remark out in future e-mails too), name calling, etc., as to allow
free flow of ideas and opinions without the need to constantly place caveats,
apologies or time consuming "in my opinion", "I think", "I believe", etc.
in every phrase. As in all human interaction, a little tolerance can only
help in communication. When using a written communications medium like this
even more tolerance is required, because the medium has dramatic limitations
for human communication, and most of us are not professional writers ... We
can easily convey the wrong impression even because of an unfortunate typo.
I don't think it is right that I have to defend every word I write against
all kinds of apparently frustrated people that are ready to jump on my face
because they believe that I am pretending to be more than what they think I
am. What makes them believe that they can judge how knowledgeable someone
else is, anyway. That is as pretentious as a self-appointment as a guru
that Caran tries to "uncover" about me. And the whole thing, most likely
originated from a slightly inconvenient use of written words ...
We can keep this as an informal discussion forum, rather than needing to
prove all the time what the source of our opinions are, what books we read,
who told me that ... For all this I will go to a University. After all,
I did not see the credentials of those that question everyone else's
credentials either. Did you?
This message has caused me to waste some time, so that I will abstain from
replying to responses to it. To much useful work ahead ...
-Polo
"La Milonguita"
polo @informix.com
Message-Id: <199606150055.RAA03997 @milongas.eng.sun.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:55:16 -0700
From: "C. F." <tanguero @milongas.Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: FAQ Tango Terms - On Facts, opinions and beliefs
Hi Polo,
I accept your apology for our misunderstanding and extend mine
for "jumping in your face". Since we already wasted enough of other
people's time on this I'll discuss the rest in private with you next
time I see you....
Chau,
----
C.F.
Message-Id: <960614231601_328736795 @emout10.mail.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 23:16:04 -0400
From: "Carlos G. Groppa" <Tango4You @aol.com>
Subject: Information about milongas
To all the Tango-L Members:
I have a friend who will be tourig the States next month and he wants to know
a couple of milongas in these cities: Miami, New Yor, Boston, Chicago, San
Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston and New Orleans.
Can anybody help me?
Un abrazo,
Carlos
Message-Id: <199606151819.OAA28028 @mime2.prodigy.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:19:40 -0500
From: J INGOJO <KMGD19A @prodigy.com>
Subject: Jerry Lewis and Geroge Raft
Just a trivial note here.
I just happened to be watching a Jerry Lewis movie called
LADIES' MAN
in which Jerry Lewis dances a fairly decent tango with George
Raft. Could almost be Argentine! Very simple and elegant.
I hope I can tape it the next time it shows, and dance just
as lovely.
Jose Ingojo
Message-Id: <22094662602507 @po.ia.dk>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 00:09:46 +0200
From: Bo Paulsen <PAULSEN @po.ia.dk>
Subject: Request inform. on tango in Amsterdam
I am going to visit Amsterdam, Holland at the end of
june or beginning of july. Can anyone on the list
give me information on tango events in Amsterdam
in this period or a web-address where this information
is available.
Bo Paulsen
Odder, Denmark
Message-Id: <9606151716.ZM23793 @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 17:16:25 -0700
From: Larry Carroll <larryc @hfeind1.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Binary thinking
David G. Way says
> I'm mostly a lurker on this list....
Welcome out of the closet! Erhh...maybe I could have phrased that better....
> I couldn't help [:)] pointing out the binary thinking behind [Larry's]
> recent posting....
>
>> Is s/he fierce & energetic, or gentle & slow? Is s/he ALWAYS fierce,
>> or ALWAYS gentle, or does s/he have the flexibility of spirit to be
>> either? Does s/he obviously have very strong (positive or negative)
>> emotions (maybe hysterically so), or is s/he cold & neutral & flat?
Oh, no, blown up by my own bomb!
Or maybe not. Did you notice that in the first sentence I'm describing a
continuum, from fierce to gentle? And I'm asking if the dancer/lover can use
ALL of it, being more fierce or more gentle according to mood, partner, &
circumstances.
Similarly with emotionalism, though there the continuum is by implication.
Accuse me of poor communication. I'll not disagree. But not (shudder!)
BINARY THINKING!
Larry de Los Angeles
--
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960615221511.27387D-100000 @zap.io.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 22:15:50 -0400
From: Enrique Garcia <egarcia @io.org>
Subject: Gobello: lunfardo cordobes (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Enrique Garcia <egarcia @io.org>
To: Argentina Cafe <argentina-cafe @beau.math.indiana.edu>
Cc: Uruguay Discusion <uruguay-discusion @db.toronto.edu>,
Argentina Literaria <argentina-literaria @beau.math.indiana.edu>
Subject: Gobello: lunfardo cordobes (fwd)
En otra de sus cartas a traves de la Red Linari de comunicaciones
don Jose Gobello me regala lo siguiente:
OTERO PIZARRO: poeta lunfardo cordobes
por Jose Gobello
Alcion Editora, de la ciudad de Cordoba, ha reunido, en un
prolijo volumen, algunos sonetos lunfardos de Enrique Otero Pizarro.
Abogado y profesor de derecho penal, Otero Pizarro (1915-1974), fue
despojado de su catedra en 1955 debido a sus antecedentes
peronistas. Luego de una breve pero no esteril residencia en la
selva de Misiones, recalo en Buenos Aires, donde ejercio libremente
su profesion y cultivo la poesia lunfardesca con el seudonimo Lope
de Boedo. Por los a#os setenta lo trate ocasionalmente durante una
reunion en su propia casa y lo recuerdo como un hombre afable,
modesto, respetuoso del saber ajeno y escondedor del propio saber.
El mas conocido de sus sonetos, titulado "Dos ladrone" -con
alusion a los crucificados en el Calvario junto a Nuestro Se#or- se
encuentra en algunas antologias. Este otro, reproducido en el
volumen editado ahora en Cordoba, es tambien muy hermoso.
PENULTIMO SONETO
Aqui para el mateo. Ya la pluma
no puede mas cantarle quiero el truco.
Y me veo jovato y chacabuco
porque un tiempo de estrellas se hizo bruma.
Se hundio el taitaje sin dejar ni espuma.
Al maton no le queda ni el trabuco.
El bramaje canflero esta caduco...
Y asi podra continuar la suma.
Me voy al zoma, entonces, rajo, espiro,
me las pico, najusho y tomo el piro
con mi lunfarda inspiracion canora.
Siento frio. Despunta otra ma#ana.
Y me voy por mi yeca suburbana
a batirle sonetos a la aurora.
Con estos versos lunfardescos Otero Pizarro se despidio de su
vida, que, para lo que ahora se usa, fue breve; castigada vida,
iluminada por la fe y la poesia. Su nombre y su recuerdo perduran en
el bien poblado Parnaso lunfardo.
Puede tomarse contacto con la Academia Porte#a del Lunfardo
escribiendo a Estados Unidos 1379 (1101) Buenos Aires - Argentina.
Jose Gobello
**************************************************************************
Enrique Garcia egarcia @io.org
Toronto, Canada EG in IRC egarcia @vnet.IBM.COM
(905) 727-7364 caibm93d @ibmmail.com
**************************************************************************
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960616151724.11789F-100000 @cor-oz>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 15:24:56 -0600
From: theresa scholz <tas1772 @u.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: El Firulete
While in San Francisco recently, I happened to see a nice review of Tango
happenings there in a newspaper called "El Firulete"(?). I misplaced my
copy on my trip home. Does anyone know how to subscribe to this
informative rag? Your help is much appreciated! Thanks in advance. TAS
Message-Id: <1f9_9606170000 @artnet.xs4all.nl>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:43:12 -0100
From: Jan Dirk van Abshoven <cadena @artnet.xs4all.nl>
Subject: Request inform. on tango in Amsterdam
Hi Bo,
BP> I am going to visit Amsterdam, Holland at the end of
BP> june or beginning of july. Can anyone on the list
BP> give me information on tango events in Amsterdam
BP> in this period or a web-address where this information
BP> is available.
Here goes:
--------------8<-------------8<----------------------------------
Amsterdam events:
June:
21 Tangocafe, Cafe Het Trefpunt, 22:00-03:00, f 5,-
22 Salon/practica, Tangoschool, 21:00-01:00, f 3,50
26 Practica, De Witte, 21:30-24:00, f 3,-
29 Tangobenefiet, VOC theater, 20:00-02:00, 'Hommage to Pepito'; f 35,-
29 Salon, Cafe Het Trefpunt, 22:00-03:30, f 5,-
July:
01 Practica, Danszaal Ketelhuisplein, 21:45-24:00, FREE
03 Practica, De Witte, 21:30-24:00, f 3,-
05 Tangocafe, Cafe Het Trefpunt, 22:00-03:00, f 5,-
06 Salon/practica, Tangoschool, 21:00-01:00, f 3,50
07 Salon, Akhnaton 20:00-00:30, f 15,-
08 Practica, Danszaal Ketelhuisplein, 21:45-24:00, FREE
10 Practica, De Witte, 21:30-24:00, f 3,-
12 Tangocafe, Cafe Het Trefpunt, 22:00-03:00, f 5,-
13 Salon/practica, Tangoschool, 21:00-01:00, f 3,50
14 Tangocafe, Cafe Boulevard, 16:00-23:30, f 3,50
Every tuesday tangocafe in Utrecht!! (25min by train)
Tangocafe, Hofman Cafe, 20:00 - 02:00, FREE
(Hofman Cafe, Janskerkhof 17A, Utrecht
Adresses:
-Tangoschool Amsterdam, Willemstraat 24a, 020-6256442
-Akhnaton, Nieuwezijdse Kolk 25; info Academia de Tango
-De Witte, De Wittenstraat 100; info Jessica tel/fax 020-6829410
-Cafe Boulevard, Cruquiusweg 3; info Anneke 020-6632156
-Danszaal, Ketelhuisplein 45; info Yvonne 020-6160470
-Cafe Het Trefpunt, Postjesweg 8; info Remi 020-6906226
--------8<------------------8<----------------------------
Have a nice time, and if you have any opportunity, try to see some of
tangosalons elsewhere in the country. Nijmegen hosts the biggest, longest, most
frequent and most international salons in the country and who knows in europe,
organized by tangoschool El Corte (no, I do not have any commercial interest in
this place). Ask around so you may hear it from others as well.
Jan Dirk van Abshoven
Editor La Cadena
cadena @artnet.xs4all.nl
fidonet 2:280/204.142
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mambaum/lacadena.html