Re: [TANGO-L] Neverending Ochos

[Razor Girl <dilettante666 @YAHOO.COM>]

I agree with Tom S. that the unending ocho problem can
be solved really easily in a couple of lessons.  One
common misconception, as other people have mentioned,
is when women are taught their "part" so without being
lead we learn there is this thing called back ochos
and practice pivoting.  Then when the leader suggests
it, we go "yay! back ochos" and really throw in that
killer pivot that we've been practicing, which unless
the man has a strong connection, easily throws the guy
off.  When I first started, I thought there was a
particular way I was supposed to do the ocho, then
after more experience found that it's all about
staying connected to the leader and that if I stay
with his torso, the back ocho just happens when we are
in crossed system.  Sometimes there is a lot of pivot
and sometimes really non at all, depending on his
style.  After more experience I have developed
stylistic ways of interpreting the music with my back
ochos making them smooth and sultry or whip snappy
rhythmical, sticky or embellished with crossing my
ankles or other things as the music might call for but
this doesn't change the connection in my torso which I
maintain strongly with the leader and with the
intensity that he suggests.

--- Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> actually agree with Carlos
> in the sense that (in the case of the woman more so)
> I consider it more
> important at first to have a well toned frame /
> embrace than to worry
> overmuch about 100% relaxation.

I also agree with Carlos Rojas, because I am a student
of his.  Mainly what he has always emphasized to me is
that the embrace should be a sincere, caring embrace.
There is not any particular need for discussion of
strong, or stiff or whatever because if you embrace
your partner in the way that you would embrace your
lover or your good friend or your mother, warmly and
securely then your embrace will always be correct.
I am primarily thinking of close embrace here, because
I don't usually dance open, but you might be able to
accomplish the same thing in open.  What do you think?

> me it is all the same: my job is to adapt to the
> follower's style of
> following, and provide the necessary lead. I am not

And similarly the women adapt their style of following
to accompany you. It really goes both ways.  And
that's what makes it so fun.

> This is something that is
> not often stated, perhaps not even widely realized.
> Or maybe my introspection
> results are kind of odd.

It is important to respect your partner.  Like I
stated before, I tend to go with the warm loving
embrace and sometimes I have found guys that aren't
really used to that, in the beginning of the embrace
they can be tentative but after several moments they
really warm up to it.  It is all about making your
partner feel secure.  Bother partners are responsible
for this.

One of the most exciting things that I have found
possible through dancing is the ability to really help
a person open up and be themselves.  It is sort of
like good listening.  Both partners are responsible
for this attitude.  When we are focused on each other
and really open to the feelings that are occurring and
relaxed, then it is as if the room melts away and the
music pours through us and it is no longer about
bodies at all, just heart.

Regards,
Rose
Portland, OR