The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 10 May 2000
to 11 May 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 03:00:30 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 10 May 2000 to 11 May 2000 (#2000-128)
There are 6 messages totalling 306 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Rejections
2. What a milonguero looks for (2)
3. A success story from a satisfied customer
4. Tango-CD by "Pasion Canyengue"
5. Rejection
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:36:01 EEST
From: Eva V <e_varon_m @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rejections
Thanks cherie
I really want thank to all people responded me with their heart.
I saw that there are many people felt the same as me, understood me. Thank
you for couraging me.
I must reply a mail by this way, I mailed her personnaly but seeing that
everyoneis so interested in this subject and give their answers I have to
reply again
here is the one
"My dear Alberto
You may have right but the real point is this: I do not complain and
whenever I feel free to do I ask someone to dance with me. My wish is to be
invited by male that is all, like other women would wish.
Yes people have the right to choose, so other people will no have the right
to dance :) is it fair, do u believe so. Thanks God I am not that in a bad
manner, As I said I do have a partner, and what he believes is that they
will not invite me to dance if he is with me...
I do not believe that I act like a child, I am courageous, but I just wanted
to know if I was not dancin good enough to be chosen. Well ... whatever?
I like tango as you can not ever imagine so it is very important for me to
feel the dance and to be comfortable with the person I dance with.
Nevermind
You may think different, but here in Turkey being a very little community of
tango dancers I believe we must pay more attention to what we do, especially
those people I mention
Regards
"
and here is the other one was to Linda
"
You are right in a point but not at all.
Yes I was not attending his class for I could not have the chance. But this
would not be so nice by my sidefor if he had accepted to dance with me I
would appresciate and might spend any effort to attend his classes too.
This is one fact.
The second fact is that he is not local at all, but he is also local.
The third fact is ifI evere waited for every teeacher to come and ask me I
would not have the chance how they dance and understand the style at all..
The fourth fact is that I did not ask repeatedly, only once and I am sad
enough.
The fifth is a men from this list answered me that he feltthe same some
timeago when he invited a woman teacher to dance and being rejected...
This is human to feel upset about this.
But in the other hand I believe that there are rude people too.
That night another person was with me someone from England, she also got
angry to this manner, funniest 0f all, seeing that this english woman was
here, the male teacher attempted to get toknow her and invited to dance.....
See There is also a subject of education of the teacher himself
Thanks for your commentations.
I would like also to tell Linda that you must have courage ask people...
>From: Cherie Magnus <MACFroggy @AOL.COM>
>Reply-To: MACFroggy @AOL.COM
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Rejections
>Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:24:40 EDT
>
>Hi List,
>
>I never invite anyone to dance, especially teachers, but I have a brief
>experience to add to this discussion that happened some time ago.
>
>I had been taking classes with a teacher for a while but never
>danced with him at a social situation. One night at a quiet milonga when
>he didn't seem occupied, I did summon my courage to go up to
>him and ask him to dance.
>He said, "Oh no, I'm not feeling well tonight," and then later danced
>with other women.
>
>I never felt the same about taking lessons from him after that (he finally
>did ask me to dance over a year later), because I felt there was really no
>interest or pride in me as a student.
>
>If you're a tango teacher and make your living from students, it only
>seems logical to me that when you come to a milonga, you work it.
>If it's your business, you schmooze and make nice with everyone, and
>dance and show off as many of your students as you can. And try to find
>time to dance with prospective students as well. This is good business.
>
>It seems logical to me that if you're a tango teacher who is really
>motivated to teach and acquire students, you work at a milonga,
>you're just not there to enjoy yourself like the rest of us. I
>mean it's up to you, I'm not complaining about it, it just seems like
>common sense. But frankly, many teachers just amuse themselves at
>milongas and then moan about lack of commitment from their
>students.
>
>Tangential to this is the milonga hosts who ignore their guests and
>spend the entire evening dancing with their partner. Unbelievably bad
>business practice.
>
>Maybe it's because there's usually no competition in smaller towns
>in the U.S. for students and milonga attendees, unlike in Buenos Aires,
>where the milonga hosts warmly greet and seat you, and the teachers
>never rest from their constant PR.
>
>In the States, there's usually only one milonga in town on an evening,
>and maybe one or two teachers, so I guess there's no need to work it.
>It's a seller's market.
>
>But then that brings me back to my old, worn out subject of simple
>good manners.
>And believe me, I'm not going to get into that again!
>
>Cherie
>Los Angeles
>
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Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:47:38 EEST
From: Eva V <e_varon_m @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: What a milonguero looks for
Janis,
Everyone wants to dance well; milongueros and milongueras.
Eva
>From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
>Reply-To: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: What a milonguero looks for
>Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:24:37 -0300
>
>If a milonguero has not seen how a woman dances, he will not take her to
>the floor. He doesn't care how she's dressed. He only cares how she
>dances.
>If another milonguero can't tell him that a woman dances well, he will not
>dance with her.
>
>A milonguero wants to dance well.
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Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:08:46 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: A success story from a satisfied customer
An American friend wrote me the other day to tell me about what she did
during her visit last month in Buenos Aires. I had spoken with her about
foreign women arranging for partners in the milongas, and she said that she
was interested in this idea herself. Here is what she wrote (with her
permission to post to the Tango list):
I proposed to my teacher--in his 50s, I guess-- that once in a while I pay
him for a lesson, but that we go to a milonga to dance, instead of doing a
private lesson at his studio or my place. It worked out beautifully. I
invited his wife along (whom I had met last year) for dinner at El Morocco,
and we three went out together 5-6 times, sometimes with a male friend from
my pension. (I figured it would be a good idea for him so his friends and
acquaintances didn't think he was hustling foreign women.) I didn't have to
sit around trying to catch anyone's eye, feeling forlorne at not being
invited to dance when all those bright, pretty, young things were dancing
their feet off! A middle-aged friend of mine noted when seeing the young,
pretty women being invited all the time: "It makes me feel three-day old
meat at the local market."
I'll definitely do the same thing on my next trip. I'll do group technique
lessons in the daytime and go to a milonga with my professor at night. I
couldn't/wouldn't want to do it everyday, but often enough to stay on a
high.
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:27:59 +0200
From: Gero Iwan <iwan @I5.INFORMATIK.RWTH-AACHEN.DE>
Subject: Tango-CD by "Pasion Canyengue"
The tango quartet "Pasisn Canyengue" has made its first CD, which has just been released: "Los Primeros Pasos". We like it. :-)
http://website.lineone.net/~john.hounam/
http://www-i5.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~iwan/tango/PasionCanyengue.html
Probably more information on the CD will be available soon on the webpages.
-- Gero
PS: I have personal interest in promoting this CD (since John Hounam, the violinist and the director of "Pasisn Canyengue", is a friend of mine) but no financial benefit from providing this recommendation.
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:48:22 -0700
From: David Mendoza <dmendoza @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: What a milonguero looks for
From: <MIROJO @aol.com>
It is a generalization, I see milongueros out there that dances with women
who only had one class or none, the women were no older than 25 or less and
very attractive. While the women who were great milongueras and not so
young were sitting.
Michele Price (Michou)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:56:47 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Rejection
Rejection is a bummer in any language!!!
When you read messages from Linda Valentino and Janice Kenyon, you are
listening to two very accomplished and experienced milongueras. I recommend
that you read carefully, and if you disagree with something they say, I
suggest you try to understand the underlying meaning of their comments
because these two know from what they speak.
When I first started to learn tango, I bought into the whole Buenos Aires
syndrome. So I thought then, as I still think now, that the argentine way
will be my way, period! This meant I would face rejection as long as it
took until I was accepted. And boy did I have to face rejection. Tango for
me is a journey that will only end in the grave. I don't expect to ever get
as good as I want, but I will continue to improve until I die.
I met Linda Vanentino when I first started to learn the dance. For one year
I admired her dancing skills and didn't think of asking her for a dance. In
my second year I felt that I was getting close to being a good enough
beginner to ask her to dance. The third year I asked Linda for a dance, but
put it as "one dance", sort of like a child asking a parent for one ice
cream bar, only one. After the dance I Thanked Linda and told her that I
would like another dance, one year from then. A year later I danced two
dances with Linda and she acknowledged my improvement, and it became a kind
of event . . . "let's see how you are next year" Now Linda and I enjoy many
dances together. She understands the respect I showed her by not foisting
myself upon her (the first dance I stepped on her foot), and I lived with
the reality that I needed to get better before I could expect good dancers
to want to dance with me. In Argentina, I danced with women who said that I
danced like an argentine, and I danced with some women who felt that I
danced like a clod. I am accepted by most but still rejected by some. It
never ever phased me because I knew that it was me who had to prove himself,
not others who had a responsibility to give me their time on the dance
floor.
Happy dancing and I hope you achieve your dreams faster than I have
Jon y Judy
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 10 May 2000 to 11 May 2000 (#2000-128)
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