The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 21 Mar 2000
to 22 Mar 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 03:00:23 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 21 Mar 2000 to 22 Mar 2000 (#2000-79)
There are 8 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. cortes and quebradas
2. Hugo Diaz, the harmonica
3. Tango Pasion, Una Noche de Tango
4. Fights,Tango & Booze (was Re: Tango & country-western & Etiquette)
5. Different subjects (2)
6. Tango and brothels, any truth about it?
7. Hi Shahrukh
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:41:55 -0600
From: Joe Grohens <joe @WOLFRAM.COM>
Subject: cortes and quebradas
Sergio wrote about the arrival of Tango dancing in the conventillos:
> It was at these occasions that little by little somebody would ask for the
> musicians to play a tango and later on somebody would dance one, purified of
> the sinful moves such as "cortes y quebradas"; a simplified variety that was
> inicially tolerated with disgust, but later on, anxiously expected.
My question ...
What are the "cortes and quebradas" described in the old style of dancing.
I have heard differing interpretations from different sources, and I am
curious to know more about it.
When I read about, for example, El Cachafaz dancing "A puro corte y quebrada"
against El Pardo Santillan, or I hear of "el tango con corte", I have
little idea what movements could meant by these words.
I get the idea that these cortes and quebradas are not part of
modern's Argentine Tango movement vocabulary. Or if they are, why
don't we ever hear discussion of contemporary tango dancers doing
"tango cortes". (I know about the "cortes" in American style ballroom
tango, and I must assume that they are not the same provocative
element ascribed to the early Argentine tango.)
Any answers or thoughts people have will be appreciated.
To show that I've done some (RTFM) homework at least, I would like to cite
the discussions of cortes and quebradas in three books that I have at hand.
"The distinctive features of the new dance-form [[tango emerging from its
precursor milonga] came entirely from the compadritos' parodistic borrowings
from the African-Argentine tradition - in particular the so-called quebradas
and cortes. The quebrada was simply an improvised, jerky semi-athletic
contortion, the more dramatic the better, while the corte was a sudden
suggestive pause, a break in the standard figures of the dance, not in
itself a particular movement so much as the prelude to a quebrada. The true
novelty ... was that cortes and quebradas were incorporated into dances in
which the partners danced together, not, as in the African-Argentine 'tango',
apart." [Simon Collier, et al., "Tango!", pp. 46-47]
"In the course of time, it [the tango] became popular in dance halls patronized
by Italian immigrants.... Here the wilder and more aggressive cortes and
quebradas were somewhat toned down, and what became known as the tango liso
(smooth tango) emerged. This 'Italianization' of the tango, as it has been
called, also meant the introduction of new instruments...." [Collier, p. 50]
"The Quebrada is not a figure in itself but an action. Meaning a "break", it
occurs when one dancer moves their foot to "break" the line between
their partner's feet. Normally, though not exclusively, it is the man who
performs the Quebrada, which is often the opening for a Sacada or
Desplazamiento." [Paul Bottomer, "Tango Argentino", p. 59]
(Not usually viewed as authoritative when it comes to AT, Bottomer at
least tries to define the movement.)
Copes ["Bailemos Tango", p. 57] describes a figure he calls
"La Quebrada" which has, near as I can figure it out, the man bringing the
woman to rest on his thigh as she does a backwards step turning around him.
It is similar to his "La Sentada" figure. It's not clear to me, but in this
case the "break" seems to refer to the stopping of the woman's movement
with the leg -- i.e., breaking her motion.
Recently Alberto Paz speculated that "quebrada" in the old sense might
refer to movements that involved breaking at the waist [personal conversation].
Joe
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:56:38 +0900
From: Sang Hyeon Chang <chang @BARAM.PHYS.TOHOKU.AC.JP>
Subject: Hugo Diaz, the harmonica
Hello list,
Today I went to the CD shop in Sendai (a town in Japan) and
I was looking for Tango section as usual. My eyes were wide open
when I saw section "Hugo Diaz". Usually there were Hugo Diaz Trio
CDs which is by Bandoneonist "Hugo Diaz".
Instead of those usuals, I found a new double CD,
"Santuario del Tango" there was a title in Japanese,
"Soul of Tango Harmonica, Hugo Diaz.. "
It is quite expensive CD, I paid about $40 for double CD.
I bought that CD and found out this is the first of Japanese
Victor's series for Santurario Del Tango. They chose Hugo Diaz, the
Harmonica player as a first album. They will release Agri, Carlos Garcia,
Nestor Marconi.. soon.
The booklet inside was all writen in Japanese, so it is quite hard to
find the correct spanish spellings of names, (Below, names of places and
names could be different from original one.)
I read the content and found it was quite interesting.
Hugo Diaz was not a tango musician, that's why his albums are so rare
and hard to find. He was a folklore musician from Santiago del Estero,
He borm 1927 Aug. 10th. and lost sight when he was 5, he hit by
ball when he was watching a soccer game.
While he was in despair, he asked his father to buy him a harmonica.
He practiced it when he was worried about his future.
After 14 months, his sight recovered by operation. And he became a
"boy wonder of harmonica". He learned falklore from famous Diaz brothers
(relatives of Hugo). He also listened Jazz albums and played it too.
1946 he moved to BsAs and 1949 he organized
a folklore band "Hugo Diaz y sus Changos(?)"(Hugo Diaz and his bad boys).
In 1952, he made his first recording. Sometimes he played tango on the
stage but he never made a recording until 1972.
In 1972 He made a new contract with TONODISC. When he discussed about
songs in the his first album with TONODISC, he talked to director that
"You haven't heard my tango before, right?"
"No, and I don't have interest. My work is selecting 12 folklore songs,
and record those, not tango."
After that talk, Hugo Diaz invited him to his "Tango" concert.
Listening Hugo Diaz's Tango, the director imediately changed his mind
and made the first "Tango" recording of Hugo Diaz at 1972. The title was
"Hugo Diaz en Buenos Aires"
In 1973, 2nd album "Hugo Diaz en Buenos Aires vol 2" was made.
Vol 3 was came out 1974. In 1975 he made his last tango album
"Hugo Diaz para Gardel 40 Anos Despues".
His not so long life was ended at 1977 23th of Oct.
This new Japanese double CD is a collection of all 3 albums of
"Hugo Diaz en Buenos Aires" from 1972 to 1974. It contains 36 songs,
including El Dia Que Me Quieras, Milonga Triste, Sur, Malena, Taquito
Militar, Milonga para una Armonica, etc.
"Hugo Diaz para Gardel.." printed as a CD with title
"Hugo Diaz; Homenaje a Carlos Gardel" you can buy this CD from Daniel
Trenner's homepage. After I read this booklet, I found out that I had
all the Tango recordings made by Hugo Diaz.
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:30:23 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango Pasion, Una Noche de Tango
Anton Gazenbeek asked:
>Does anyone know if the shows Una Noche de Tango, Tango Pasion,
>and Tango Para Dos have a CD or cassette soundtrack?
The tango company Tango X 2 has two privately produced CDs.
One is titled "Perfumes de Tango"
One is titled "Una Noche de Tango"
The music from the tango show "Tango Pasion" is available on EMI/Angel.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:13:32 -0800
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fights,Tango & Booze (was Re: Tango & country-western & Etiquette)
Original Message -----
From: Chris Humphrey <humphrey @MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tango & country-western & Etiquette
> I've been dancing in bars and dance halls since
> high school (mid 60s) and at milongas for the past
> four years. NEVER, in 35 years of dancing in
> public places, have I seen a fight --
Snip..........
Hi everybody!
We just got back from CITA 2000, what a great week! More about CITA later
but this thread is very interesting. Firstly, Chris is lucky to have never
even witnessed a fight in a dance club! I've seen blood flow freely (lots of
it) in more than one CW bar, lots of fistfights, some with clubs and knives
and even seen guys get shot! This type of thing was fairly common in CW bars
and honky tonks, also quite possible in blues bars. I also remember way back
in the dim reaches of my past that fights erupted at the sock-ups (does
anybody remember those?) in high school. The newspapers are full of news of
violence occurring at or near night clubs. All those places feature dancing.
Somebody posited that the socio-economic level of those who go to CW bars
was the cause. I'm sure that argument can be made for blues clubs and other
such places. Personally, I think is more due to the excessive consumption of
alcohol and high levels of testosterone. Milongas are actually some of the
nicest places to dance besides contra dancing. I believe that wherever
people congregate with the intention to dance, there is a lot more civility
and good feelings. This is apparent in swing dances, salsa, tango, etc and
of course all the ballroom dances. Night clubs and bars OTOH, attract a lot
of guys looking for "action" and with plenty of liquid courage and lowered
inhibitions, the fights are almost inevitable.
Just my $.02
Manuel
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:19:33 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Different subjects
Tango has multiple aspects. Dance, music, orchestras, musicians,
instruments, singers, writers, lyrics, history, theater, movies, etc.
I have been trying to stimulate interest relative to some of those aspects,
as alternative to the usual discussions about the dance. Today, I had the
great pleasure of reading two notes; one by Joe Groens, in reference to
"Cortes y Quebradas" and another by Sang Chang in reference to the biography
of Hugo Diaz. Both very interesting and most informative.
This compensated me, enormously for all the attacks suffered during the last
few days.
By the way, since I do not have too much time, I dictate my notes into a
recorder for my niece, who is thirteen and still learning English, to type
and mail. So do not waste your time criticizing "my spelling". I taught her
how to use the spell checker today. There are few psychos and wirdos that do
not contribute any intelligent thoughts but waste there time spreading
manure all over. I speak, Castilian, French, Italian, English and now I am
trying to learn German; how many languages do you speak? Susan, or who ever
you are hidden behind that name.
I would like to submit for your consideration the idea that no person or
group should monopolize the tango line, neither any particular subject. It
seems to be the habit to discuss only one topic at the time; why not to
discuss several topics at the same time?. What do you think?.
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:34:33 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Tango and brothels, any truth about it?
Somebody sent me a note, I quote it partially.
"I must also add that I personally have a bit a skepticism about the
significance of the history of tango in brothels. It makes for exciting and
colorful reading, and helps convey the fact that tango's origins were in the
lower classes of Argentine society. I am sure that tango did exist in
brothels, but we should recognize that dancing would be a mere sideline in
such a place and would be likely to have taken place in a relatively
incidental manner."
This is a most interesting subject which is discussed in detail by Horacio
Ferrer in his book " El tango como testigo social".
"Tango as a social witness". He used as sources of information the archives
of the Federal Police, the City Hall and the Health Department.There is
reference to census of brothels, number and types of houses existing, their
characteristics and the activities there performed. Records of police
intervention, etc. The oldest, naturally dates from times much earlier than
the begining of tango. I do not have that book in my library any longer;
therefore I am speaking according to my recollection.
At the beginnigs, 1875, the boundary with the Indian Lands was not far from
Buenos Aires to the south. This line was protected from the intermittent
indian attacks by evenly spaced fortresses. General Roca was in charge of
the last expeditions to"pacify" the indians. Result of these military
excursions, was that many indian female and children were brought back to
the 'civililization' to be hired as servants for domestic or rural work.
Unfortunately the women that were not chosen ended up working in brothels,
very frequently.
To summarize there were different types of houses:
Low-class - women: mostly blacks and (chinas) indians. Clients: poor
immigrants, blacks, compadritos and gauchos.
High-class - women: mostly European, brought by criminal organizations.
Source: mostly Poland and France.
Clients: Middle and high-class Argentineans and
immigrants.
The custom was to arrive to the brothel, were there were other activities,
such as gambling, drinking, dancing and singing,
spend some time in those activities and eventually arrive to the sexual
part. This custom was prevalent in most of the ex-colonies of Portugal and
Spain. As can be seen in the Brazilian movie Gabriela. (Book: Jorge
Amado-Sonia Braga and Macello Mastroiani-May be found in the
USA -Blockbuster). This was also seen in movies of the Far West, were the
brothels were frequently, Salon,(gambling and drinking), hotel and women
entertainers eventually available for sex.
ups...! too long again, I am sorry.
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:24:24 EST
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Hi Shahrukh
.....proposing the curtailing of free discourse
on this forum on any topic related to Tango (that job is already
taken ;-) ......
One of the nice things about attending CITA 2000 was the opportunity to meet
and chat with many wonderful people I only knew from their writing to the
Tango-L. Among them was Shahrukh Merchant and I had the pleasure to meet him
in person. He is quite personable, well spoken, well dressed, young and
handsome. It was good to have met you Shahrukh Merchant!
Manuel
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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:30:13 -0500
From: Enrico Massetti <e_mass @EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Different subjects
Sergio Suppa:
> why not to discuss several topics at the same time?. What do you think?.
I agree, and start from your recent posting.
You said that Italian immigrants living in the "conventillos" adopted tango,
and
"cleaned it up" a little bit to make it acceptable to their family oriented
traditions.
I don't know if music history is your strong point, perhaps somebody else
can jump
and help me on this.
I am an Italian who emigrated to America with his family. We ended up in
North
America rather than Argentina, but the experience of being up-rooted and
thrown into a different society is what emigration is all about: you look
for ties
to your "home", being food, friends or music.
I grew up in Milan, Italy listening to jazz music, but when I found myself
living in
the USA I found in tango the music and the dancing "of home". Is this
because
of the strong influence of Italian immigrants, and their sons in the
formation and
development of tango in the Rio de la Plata? Did it all start at the time
tango
was adopted by the poor Italian immigrants living together in the
"Conventillos"?
Ciao,
Enrico
Italian tanguero in Florida
End of TANGO-L Digest - 21 Mar 2000 to 22 Mar 2000 (#2000-79)
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