The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 29 Jun 2000
to 30 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 03:00:30 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 29 Jun 2000 to 30 Jun 2000 (#2000-178)
There are 8 messages totalling 347 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Women in classes
2. Tango & the FETE NATIONALE
3. (no subject)
4. Practice, practice
5. NY Times Article
6. Tango television, Cleveland, Erie.
7. Freedom for women in tango (2)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:27:04 +0200
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Women in classes
Charles Roques wrote:
> <<Lastly, I am told, this change of weight (without moving) hurts the
> ankles of the follower more than other steps!>>
>
> Huh? Perhaps you were told this by someone with weak ankles or someone who
> had a very heavy-handed leader. We're not talking flamenco here.
>
No, I was told by someone with whom I have danced with quite a few
times.
This is the only person who said this(once) among all with whom I have
danced. Neverthless, it is one of the things I was told. May be this
depends directly on the pointedness of the stilettos on that day ;-)
> <<When the follower is really good(like professionals who just exactly
> do as much and nothing more or less than the lead)...>>
>
> Not true at all. Not from the professionals I have seen. This perpetuates the
> myth that women have no contribution to the dance and are passive followers.
A while ago, you yourself had written that there are professionals
who will exactly follow and some who will actively follow.
Besides, may be they just follow exactly when they dance with someone
new -- which would make sense just as much as leader not trying to
do exotic things when dancing with someone with whom he has not danced
before.
> These comments aren't quite as wacky as the one about leading with one's head
> but could still be misconstrued by people just starting out.
>
This was dancing cheek to cheek and not head lead -- I realize I should
have clarified it earlier(someone had written about followers pressing
their 'head' on the *cheek* -- not the head. And I dont think they meant
the follower was pressing the cheek from the *top* of the head).
I did write that side of the face would be parallel the same way as
the chest when dancing this way if it is held gently(i.e., not
pressing) -- try it out.
If anyone misconstrues anything written here, I am sure they will know
they can write back. If not, they will realize it soon enough when
they try it out on the dance floor.
You are right -- even ten years from now I would not have danced
long enough.
rajan.
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:55:19 -0400
From: Daniel Saindon <gardien @TANGO.MONTREAL.QC.CA>
Subject: Tango & the FETE NATIONALE
Good morning List-aficionados =20
Congratulations Keith for your essay:=20
Montr=E9al =E0 moi (The drums). Your
article reminded me of an old
ethnographic essay made by the
National Geographic Society on
the winter-some "Carnaval de Quebec"!
It shows a very good understanding
of the French Cultural aspect of Montreal
and it also provides proof that you=20
love it.
Best regards
Daniel Saindon
gardien @tango.montreal.qc.ca
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:33:28 EDT
From: Sherrie Pallotta <SherPal @AOL.COM>
Subject: (no subject)
Hello list: does anyone know if the Milonga Pavadita is still going in BSAS,
as i recall it was on Thursday late afternoons. Also, i am going to be in
BsAS form july 19 to Aug 2, are anyof the list members giong to be there
then, maybe we can connect for a coffee and some conversation. This is my
third time to BsAs and I am looking forward to making new friends as well as
dance. Sherrie
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:17:37 -0500
From: Ed & Cecilia Yuthasastrakosol <dominic @ESCAPE.CA>
Subject: Re: Practice, practice
>But, there are two questions that I still have. I have not seen anyone
reply
>to Sue's query about your favourite walking steps. I would like to see some
>responses to that, as ours is also a very young Tango community with no
role
>models to watch.
>
I have to disagree with this. In our community we are very forunate to have
a teacher who has many years experience with AT. Not only is he an
excellent role model, but an excellent teacher, as well. Since his arrival
in our community, our AT has improved vastly--so much so that even a recent
guest instructor commented on how much we had improved.
I suspect the difference he has made in our community has been largely
because he is such a good teacher. He has been able to teach the women to
follow because he has taught the men to lead. This is something no one has
been able to do before.
In our community, we have been trying to expand our contact with other
teachers by inviting guest instructors to give workshops. Can you imagine
that some of the teachers in our community (those beginners) do not even ?
It is incomprehensible that teachers do not come out to these events nor do
they encourage their students to attend. Exposure to knowledgeable and
experienced teachers is crucial to the improvement of the quality of dancing
in any community. If only some of the teachers understood that, I'm sure
smaller communities would grow more quickly.
Ed
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:16:09 -0400
From: Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM>
Subject: NY Times Article
There is an article in today's (6-29) NY Times about me and my Tango
Web site. It's short: four paragraphs. Here is the Web address for it.
www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/06/circuits/articles/29tang.html
If you buy the paper, it is in the Technology|Circuits section of
the Times.
The online article includes a link to my tango book. It also mentions
a new article titled "0 to Tango in 60 Seconds" which I've put on my
Web site. They don't give a link to it, however. I've already gotten a
half-dozen requests for its location. Don't ask me; go to my Web page.
The URL is below.
The article is my answer to various people who ask me what tango is
all about. Most of them, of course, are just faking an attempt at real
conversation & will totally ignore any answer. But a few people really
want to know. This is for them.
I've tried to capture the essence of the tango, & to give them just
enough help to actually dance tango. Only by doing it can they find
out from their own personal experience what tango is.
So how do I teach music, leading/following, floor navigation, &
figures in 60 seconds? Check it out & see for yourself!
And to top it all off I even try to capture the spiritual side of
tango. Here's what I say at the end of the article.
"Just relax and have a good time. Don't worry about all the fancy
stuff you've seen in movies or shows or on the floor around you. If it
all comes together and you're having a good time, you're doing
authentic Argentine tango. And all the people who are frowning and
struggling to do incredibly complicated figures are only faking
it. Because real tango is in your heart, not in your feet."
Larry de Los Angeles
http://home.att.net/~larrydla
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:01:46 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Tango television, Cleveland, Erie.
What a great tango weekend!
The organizer: Timmy Tango.
The instructors: Nito&Elba, Daniel Lapadula&Dolores de Amo.
The Attendants: Groups from Erie, Pittsburgh, Akron, Columbus, Detroit,
Manuel and his lovely wife from Atlanta mixed with the locals from
Cleveland.
The TV Station: "Solo Tango" from Buenos Aires.
Solo Tango is a TV station that sends to the air programs related to
Argentine Tango 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,. The music, musicians,
lyrics, poets, dance, movies, news, etc, are fully covered by this great
station that reaches many other cities and countries in the world. They
even broadcast tango and milonga lessons given by the best teachers!
Dolores de Amo happens to be a great dancer, her moves are the expression of
her personality, intensity and sensuality.
She also is a very good tango instructor and one of the managers and (I
believe) a co-owner of Solo Tango.
The result of her visit is that Timmy Tango, Nito&Elba, Daniel Lapadula, the
attendants to the workshop and myself will be part of the station
programming for the next season. Timmy and I had a very interesting
interview directed by Dolores to the areas of our lives and involvement with
Argentine Tango.
Daniel Lapadula, is an excellent dancer, with a long history of scenic
activity in Argentina and abroad, initially educated in the areas of modern
and classical dance and a subsequent evolution to Argentine Tango. We
certainly enjoyed his teaching and very personal style.
Nito&Elba are unique as teachers and performers. They both originated in
small towns in the province of Buenos Aires.
Both of them lost their first spouses in unexpected accidents. They found
consolation in each other and their shared love for A.Tango. They live in
Mar del Plata. Lucky me! (I also live in that city during the summer as it
is a sea shore resort).
I learned most of what I know about tango from them. Nito for his age
belongs in the same group as R.Cieri, Puppy Costello,
Mingo Pugliese, Carlos Copes, Orlando Paiva, etc. The fact that, for many
years, he remained isolated from Buenos Aires, in Mar del Plata caused him
to develop his own style, very rich in steps and extremely elegant.
Since we have been friends for a long time I brought both of them to Erie
where we had two great workshops, on Monday and Tuesday. Their last lesson
in Cleveland was last night. They are now on their way to the next teaching
destination, Seattle, Washington.
They all left behind lots of good memories, moments shared, jokes, good
times and many new friends.
This is what tango is all about, is it not?
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:19:15 -0400
From: michael ditkoff <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Freedom for women in tango
Michel Liger wrote an interesting message last Sunday. Michel wanted to
know if sometimes the follower leads the leader by rebelling. The
question is "do you have a practice where the follower takes initiatives
and does it enrich or disturb your tango?"
Michel, Daniel Trenner said at last year's Washington, DC Tango Festival
"There is no security in tango."
You are experiencing this with your partner.
The first time I danced in close-embrace position (I had to because my
partner just squeezed me like a sponge), I had a panic attack. I was
worried I would have a collision because my right peripheral vision was
gone. Since that occasion, I try to expect the unexpected. I'm not always
ready. My teacher taught me a step through move. I lead the woman in back
ocho and after she pivots and steps back the other way, I step through
and change her direction. When I practiced that move with him, he gave me
a gancho. I was set up and didn't know what hit me.
But I'm better now and not as shaken. One night I was leading Kim in a
step over. After the first step over with her right foot over my left
foot, she ochoed (if that is a word) came back, stepped over my right
foot with her left foot, gave me a gancho as I lead it, and then with her
trailing foot, grabbed by right foot. I quickly changed my weight to my
left foot as she dragged by foot in a circle. She caught me by surprise
but I didn't panic. Her move reinforced that there isn't security in
tango.
The mystery woman, M from Florida, plays me like a violin. I don't know
what she's doing, but I bet it looks great.
I remember an article in the tango magazine"La Voz del Tango" (of which
I'm a columnist, in the name of full disclosure) of a woman who just
stopped dancing with a man IN THE MIDDLE of a tango because he didn't
give her any opportunity to play.
A woman's playfulness and initiative enriches the tango between us. When
tango lovers go to tango shows, isn't the play between the partners what
we anxiously wait to see?
Michael
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:35:29 EDT
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Freedom for women in tango
----Original Message Follows----
From: michael ditkoff <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
Reply-To: michael ditkoff <tangomaniac @JUNO.COM>
>I remember an article in the tango magazine"La Voz del Tango" (of which
I'm a columnist, in the name of full disclosure) of a woman who just
stopped dancing with a man IN THE MIDDLE of a tango because he didn't
give her any opportunity to play.<
Sorry Michael, such behavior is not so good. The woman accepted the dance
with that man and she should have finished it at least if not the whole
"tanda". I think the only reason to stop in the middle of a tango would be
that he is being innapropriate or that she or he got hurt and had to stop.
To do this without a very good reason is the ultimate insult and extremely
rude. This goes back to the threads we had going a while back about the need
to sit and watch observing the dancers at a milonga before making the move
to ask somebody to dance or accepting a dance from somebody. After the offer
has been tendered and accepted, dancing through to the end is the right
thing to do.
Unless the man is completely inept or extremely selfish and controlling
(I've seen these types :P), the woman always has a chance to "do her thing".
Mind you, the music always dictates what is to be danced and the dancers
should dance to the music. Outside of that, the leader proposes and the
follower responds, preferably in a manner that the leader expects or at
least in a way that wont make him get off balance or miss the flow of the
dance. I enjoy a skilled follower who can dance a lot of things without
interfering with the music or the lead, but I really do not enjoy a partner
who dances by herself and can never be counted on to dance the suggested
lead.
Manuel
By the way, if someone left me in the middle of the floor during a dance I
would be totally mortified. I would be extemely weary of asking a woman to
dance who does that to almost any partner.
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 29 Jun 2000 to 30 Jun 2000 (#2000-178)
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