The Tango-L mailing list archive

Digest from 24 Jun 2000 to 25 Jun 2000

Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date:     Sun, 25 Jun 2000 03:00:05 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango          <TANGO-L  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV  @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:  TANGO-L Digest - 24 Jun 2000 to 25 Jun 2000 (#2000-173)
There are 5 messages totalling 253 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Practice, practice (2)
  2. Italia, tango and TAi-Chi
  3. Tango and immigration
  4. "Cristal" by Susana Rinaldi





Date:    Sat, 24 Jun 2000 03:18:05 -0500
From:    mlips <mlips  @PANGEA.CA>
Subject: Re: Practice, practice

I have to honestly say Melanie, that this has not been the case in our
particular community (I cannot speak for others). In our community, I feel
that our leaders have been very patient, considerate, and dedicated.

Marie


Melanie wrote:

I didn't see mention of another reason for followers' hesitation to indulge
in practicas: the
unsolicited critiques we receive from leaders.  I know that leaders also
receive such verbalized
performance judgements from followers, but I suspect these are less
frequent.  Unhappily, even the
social atmosphere of a milonga will not deter the (self-)righteous from
their tutoring.  Given
the choice of hazarding a tanda with partners who nag, or standing in the
dark enjoying the
music, who can blame us followers for lurking?





Date:    Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:12:56 -0400
From:    SERGIO <SERGIO  @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Italia, tango and TAi-Chi

Malena from Trento, Northern Italy sent this note to me asking for a
translation and publication in the tango lists.

Caro Sergio,

Siamo infatuated col prodotto della cultura popolare Argentina: Il tango.
Per imparare e ballare =E8 stato una fonte di alcuna frustrazione ma anch=
e di
un piacere intenso come non avevo mai sperimentato prima. Ho trovato quel
Tai-Chi ha aggiunto enormemente al mio equilibrio e al trasferimento di p=
eso
quando ballo il tango. Il pi=F9 imparo di Argentina il pi=F9 voglio andar=
e e
visitare come la maggior parte dei miei amici hanno gia fatto. Per la tua
informazioni non ho trovato uno che non ha avuto ancora un tempo piacevle
li.
Hai ragione di essere orgoglioso della tua origine!
Lo sono anch'io e non manco l'occasione di far saper la mia origine agli
inquirenti. Mi sembra di mantenere lo spirito dei miei antenati e della m=
ia
cultura, in vita, quando ne parlo. Si vede che abbiamo ancora l'amore del=
la
nostra patria nei nostri cuori, e non potra' cessare mai...
Vorrei solamente sentire atti nobili, storie perenni che esultino l'onest=
a',
l'integrita', lo stoicismo e tutte le migliori virtu' degli italiani.
Tristemente al giorno d'oggi non e' cosi'.
Quando venni a New York per studiare cercavo lavoro part-time e dovunque
andassi mi impiegavano immediatamente e non so perche' finivo sempre con =
la
resposabilita' di chiudere la cassa giornaliera (taking care of closing t=
he
registers). Ero orgogliosa di tanta fiducia e del fatto che gli stessi
padroni mi dicevano che i Trentini erano noti per essere lavoratori
d'onesta', d'integrita', e di docile temperamento.
Mi resi conto che erano le stesse virtu' che i nostri genitori ci
insegnavano. Sono le stesse che ho sempre cercato d'insegnare ai miei fig=
li,
come pure te, sono certa.
Be', tai-chi mi aspetta, ciao.
Malena

Dear Sergio,


We are infatuated with the product of the Argentinean popular culture:
Tango.
To learn and to dance has been a source of some frustration but also of a=
n
intense pleasure as I had never experienced before. I found that practici=
ng
Tai-Chi has added enormously to my equilibrium and transfer of weight whe=
n I
dance tango.
 The more I learn about Argentina the more I want to go and visit as most=
 of
my friends have already done. For your information I have not found one y=
et
that did not have a great time while visiting there.
You are right when you are proud of your origins.
I am as well and do not miss a chance to let everyone know where I am fro=
m.
This way I feel I revere the spirit of my ancestors and my culture, in li=
fe
and when I speak. It is obvious that we have love for our Motherland in o=
ur
hearts, something that will never perish...
I would like to hear only noble acts, ever lasting stories of honor,
integrity, stoicism and all the best virtues of the Italian people. It is
sad that these days this is not possible.
Once, when I went to New York to study I was employed right away, it did =
not
matter where I applied, I do not know the reason but I frequently finish
having the responsibility of closing the register. I was proud they
deposited so much trust in me and also of the fact that people from Trent=
o
were well known for their honesty, integrity and docility.
I realized those were the virtues I received from my parents. The same on=
es
I tried to teach my children, I am certain this is the same you do.
OK., Tai-Chi is waiting for me, chau.





Date:    Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:22:42 +0000
From:    Larry Carroll <larrydla  @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Tango and immigration

OOPS! I am NOT Joan Yarfitz! I was just using her email yesterday
when I sent off a message about courage & immigrants. My email
was not working for some reason & I forgot to change the SentFrom
field before I sent my message.
_________________________________________________________________

I'd like to change this subject a little bit. A lot has been
written about the sad lot of immigrants around the turn of the
century & the effect it had on the tango.

First, I suspect that the fact that perhaps 40% of the immigrants
were from Italy - & their love of opera - was a bigger influence
on tango music. A lot of the lyrics of depression, rage, &
jealousy are straight out of classical opera.

Second, I think there's been a lot of selectivity in discussing
lyrics to fit the prejudices of scholars. "Immigrants are a
sorry lot, so their songs must reflect that." I'd guess a more
objective study would find many lyrics that focus on happier
themes.

Related to that: I also wonder if Steve's professional
experience, which seems to involve helping the needy, has
influenced his view of immigrants. After all, the ones who DON'T
show up in his programs are bound to be (on the average) a good
deal happier, capable, or lucky. And I don't just mean educated,
or middle-class, or professionals. My plebian ancestors were
ambitious, energetic, & self-reliant. The music that came from
their experience (jigs, polkas, & (later) the Lindy & the like)
are some of the happiest in the world.

Third, a lot of the discussion of lyrics seems to assume there
was no evolution of them. I would suspect that as tango matured
into the "Golden Age" that they would become happier (or at least
more varied) to suit the newer times. And what about those being
written now? Has tango completely ossified? Are the newest
artists still writing the same themes, the same way?

Lastly, very little of the tango music itself is intrinsically
sad. Exchange the depressing lyrics for ones expressing
contentment, happiness, or tranguility and   Presto, Chango!
the same orchestral background seems to express THOSE emotions.
Change the angry lyrics for exuberant ones & the exact same music
seems to metamorphose into something else. Take away the lyrics
entirely - & every person may feel the music expresses a
different emotion. And the same person at different times &
circumstances may hear exactly the opposite emotion.

                Larry de Los Angeles
                http://home.att.net/~larrydla


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Date:    Sun, 25 Jun 2000 00:36:38 -0400
From:    "Sa, Na-W, Na-C, Na-E, Misc" <tangomaniac  @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Practice, practice

Melaine raised an interesting point:

"the unsolicited critiques we receive from leaders.   Unhappily, even the
 social atmosphere of a milonga will not deter the (self-)righteous
 from  their tutoring.  Given  the choice of hazarding a tanda with
partners who nag, or standing
 in the dark enjoying the  music, who can blame us followers for
lurking?"

I'll guess that the (self-)righteous don't realize that their partner is
following their lead, which might not be the same as WHAT they think they
are leading. I remember vividly having an unintended consequence. When I
demonstrated to my teacher (I was trying to lead the woman in a circular
molinete while I was doing sacadas),  he pointed out that I stopped
turning my shoulder for the woman to continue in the molinete and the
only thing she could do was a forward ocho. The partner was following my
lead even though it wasn't the lead I wanted. After that lesson, I
decided to look in the mirror whenever there were unintended
consequences.

Part of the reason men continue to tutor is that women continually
apologize, even if it's not their fault. Apologizing signals to the man
that the woman is accepting responsibility for the error. If women stop
apologizing, perhaps the men will stop tutoring.

There's an old expression: It takes two to tango. IMHO, either both
partners get it right or BOTH get it wrong. It's never a case of only one
got it right!!





Date:    Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:25:47 -0700
From:    Richard Lipkin <ezie  @EROLS.COM>
Subject: "Cristal" by Susana Rinaldi

A friend of mine is looking for a recording of "Cristal" by Susana Rinaldi to replace one which he lost.
According to his request this recording was made "live" at a concert and is accompanied by piano. One version
he has found on "Mi voz y mi ciudad" is accompanied by an organ and it's not the same.

Does anyone on the list know of the recording my friend is looking for, and where he can find it? He thinks
there might be one by FM Tango.

Thanks,
Richard Lipkin


PS My friend writes,
""Hace unos 10 aqos mi mama tenia un disco de Susana Rinaldi grabado en uno de sus conciertos, acompaqada por
piano en donde se incluma "CRISTAL" . El disco se perdis hace aqos, en mi empeqo por que dejara el tema le
regale "Mi voz y mi ciudad" de Susana Rinaldi lo cual no sirvis por que no es en vivo, la acompaqa un srgano y
no es lo mismo! me dijo, por lo cual me tome el atrevimiento de consultarte, por la lista de canciones que
tienen algunos discos creo que el que busco es "FM TANGO" pero no estoy seguro...""





End of TANGO-L Digest - 24 Jun 2000 to 25 Jun 2000 (#2000-173)
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