The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 12 Jun 2000
to 13 Jun 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:00:38 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 12 Jun 2000 to 13 Jun 2000 (#2000-161)
There are 10 messages totalling 449 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Women waiting and wanting to dance (6)
2. seeking info on a song
3. women waiting and wanting to dance
4. EU-W: Tango in Paris, Italy and Austria
5. Women waiting and waiting to dance
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 07:32:35 EDT
From: Frank Sasson <FRSASSON @AOL.COM>
Subject: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Hello tangueras of the world:
A lady friend of mine complained to me that she arrived at milongas with her
boyfriend, danced with him a couple of times and then sent him off to dance
with other women, so that other men could ask her to dance.
She is an attractive, advanced tanguera, a very good follower, but she's not
24, tall and gorgeous, and while her boyfriend danced away with many other
ladies, she sat and nobody asked her to dance.
This is not a new problem, but it is a problem that requires a solution,
because as tango gets bigger in the United States, we're going to have more
women than men joining in, and even though as a tanguero, I like the fact
that I can have my choice of magnificent dancers when I go to a milonga, and
I try and dance with as many as I can in one night, I have been guilty of not
dancing with a lady that came in with a male tanguero, when I saw her sitting
alone, using the respectful protocol of not interfering with a lady who
happens to be with another man.
Can you ladies offer some suggestions as to how to solve this problem?
We inquiring male tangueros would like to know.
Frank Sasson
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:48:12 -0500
From: Chris Humphrey <humphrey @MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Frank Sasson wrote:
.....I have been guilty of not
dancing with a lady that came in with a male
tanguero, when I saw her sitting
alone, using the respectful protocol of not
interfering with a lady who
happens to be with another man.
Can you ladies offer some suggestions as to how
to solve this problem?
The answer seems very simple to me. Ask her to
dance. If she prefers to
dance only with her escort, she can politely say
no thank you.
Chris Humphrey
Chris Humphrey
Biomedical Engineering Program
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712
512-471-1826 (phone); 512-471-0616 (fax)
"To shake your rump is to be environmentally
aware." David Byrne
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 07:19:10 PDT
From: Erica Sutton <ericaatwork @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Chris, Frank -
Chris wrote:
>The answer seems very simple to me. Ask her to
>dance. If she prefers to
>dance only with her escort, she can politely say
>no thank you.
I second that emotion!
If I send my date out to dance with other ladies, I am hoping that other men
will come and ask me to dance. My date is often even so kind as to wander
off and let other men ask me to dance - even if he is simply wanting to
watch the dancers for a bit and not dance himself.
It is frustrating to end up just sitting alone - no conversation, no dance!
(This experience relates to N. American milongas only.)
Erica
Chicago
tango @argentinamail.com
>From: Chris Humphrey <humphrey @MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
>Reply-To: Chris Humphrey <humphrey @MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: Women waiting and wanting to dance
>Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 08:48:12 -0500
>
>Frank Sasson wrote:
>
> .....I have been guilty of not
> dancing with a lady that came in with a male
>tanguero, when I saw her sitting
> alone, using the respectful protocol of not
>interfering with a lady who
> happens to be with another man.
>
> Can you ladies offer some suggestions as to how
>to solve this problem?
>
>
>
>The answer seems very simple to me. Ask her to
>dance. If she prefers to
>dance only with her escort, she can politely say
>no thank you.
>
>
>Chris Humphrey
>
>
>
>
>
>Chris Humphrey
>Biomedical Engineering Program
>The University of Texas at Austin
>Austin, TX 78712
>512-471-1826 (phone); 512-471-0616 (fax)
>
>"To shake your rump is to be environmentally
>aware." David Byrne
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:49:14 -0400
From: sue stigleman <stigleman311 @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: seeking info on a song
I'm trying to track down a particular tango recording from fragmentary
information. The English title is something like "A Thousand Lovers". The
instrumentation is primarily (entirely?) guitar -- very spare, slow, and
open. I don't know if it's on a tango recording, or if it's on some sort of
other recording. Does this ring bells with anyone? I danced to it last
night, and it was wonderful for slow and rich walking.
Thanks!
--sue
stigleman311 @earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:55:11 -0400
From: Annette Bickford <annettebickford @SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: women waiting and wanting to dance
In response to Frank's question, it seems to me that these women could
simply make eye contact with men they wish to dance with. This would imply
that the man she is with is comfortable with her dancing with others, and
vice versa. The point is that the responsibility to negotiate this would be
taken by THE COUPLE beforehand.
It is ludicrous that individuals be required to sit out in the name of
the chivalric code when they really would love to be dancing...For heaven's
sake, how chivalrous is it, or historically accurate for that matter for
women to pay to get in? When you think about it, traditions that we now
consider to be timeless were actually "newfangled" once. Surely slight
modifications to these traditions, which happen endlessly and often
unnoticeably anyway, do not necessarily disrupt the historical integrity of
the dance (perhaps only our definitions of it) while importantly, they
address the needs of participants.
Nonnie B.
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:50:43 -0500
From: Lisandro Gomez <lisandro.gomez @SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: EU-W: Tango in Paris, Italy and Austria
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Estimada people from the list,
A friend of mine is going to Europe in July and she would like to know =
where to Tango in the following places and dates: Paris, July 11 and 12; =
Milan and Como, July 13 to 31 and Vienna, August 1st to 5th.=20
Thank you very much in advance,
By the way, if you are coming to Toronto, drop on the Sunday to El =
Rancho, 7 :00 to 8:30 PM tango lessons, Basic and intermediate, three =
instructors. And from 8:30 PM to 12ish, Milonga!!! Ticket: $C 6. El =
Rancho, at 430 College St. (NE of Bathurst St.) Toronto, Canada.
Gracias y Chau.
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Estimada people from the list,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A friend of mine is going to Europe in July and she =
would like=20
to know where to Tango in the following places and dates: =
Paris, July 11=20
and 12; Milan and Como, July 13 to 31 and Vienna, August 1st to =
5th.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you very much in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>By the way, if you are coming to Toronto, drop on =
the Sunday=20
to El Rancho, 7 :00 to 8:30 PM tango lessons, Basic and intermediate, =
three=20
instructors. And from 8:30 PM to 12ish, Milonga!!! Ticket: =
$C 6. El=20
Rancho, at 430 College St. (NE of Bathurst St.) Toronto,=20
Canada.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Gracias y Chau.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFD3EF.180FDB00--
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:50:17 -0400
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Frank, thanks for raising this conundrum again. It may be an old topic, but
since the problem continues, it's worth continuing to look for solutions.
I have always found it amusing that tango dancers, who consider themselves
the most sophisticated in the dance world, the ones who have chosen (or been
chosen by) the most difficult, intricate, intellectual, passionate dance of
all, are as bound by pecking order as any 5th grade clique. If men were
REALLY secure about their dance ablilty, they would not feel threatened by
the possibility of dancing with a lady not at their level (or not
sufficiently gorgeous and young).
In the ballroom and country western dance worlds (you know, the folks we all
look down our noses at...) it is the BEST men dancers who take turns dancing
with every lady, and who will nudge and remind any other man who forgets his
responsibility. Yet somehow they all seem to have a great time and enjoy
the dancing and the social aspect of the evening. We have heard here before
from tangueros who protest the evening is for THEIR enjoyment, and why
should they feel obliged to dance with ladies who are not their favorites.
Fair enough. But if that is really the kind of dancing people want, they
can get it by staying home and rolling up the living room rug. Dancing,
even souldful, passionate Argentine tango, is a social experience. There is
a community. Communities may thrive or wither. It's in our hands.
Many happy tangos to you all,
Melinda
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:13:38 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Original Message -----
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Snip
> I have always found it amusing that tango dancers, who consider themselves
> the most sophisticated in the dance world, the ones who have chosen (or
been
> chosen by) the most difficult, intricate, intellectual, passionate dance
of
> all, are as bound by pecking order as any 5th grade clique.
Actually, tango is very cliquish(?) this is one of the first things that
people notice when they go to Buenos Aires or even other large American (and
perhaps European?) cities. There has been a lot of discussion about how
difficult it can be to break into the tango scene in BsAs, even requiring
the use of "rented milongueros" for visiting ladies to dance with. Or making
other financial or otherwise arrangements to buy into the *scene*.
> If men were
> REALLY secure about their dance ablilty, they would not feel threatened by
> the possibility of dancing with a lady not at their level (or not
> sufficiently gorgeous and young).
Based on the prevailing tango culture imported directly from Mecca, it is
not about men (or women) feeling secure or insecure in their dance. The code
dictates that if one is seen dancing poorly, one does not get to dance much
at all. It is a well known fact in Bs As that if a man asks a woman to dance
and she can't dance, he looks bad and it is the kiss of death as far as
getting dances with the "good" (read popular) dancers. Same goes for the
women.
> In the ballroom and country western dance worlds (you know, the folks we
all
> look down our noses at...) it is the BEST men dancers who take turns
dancing
> with every lady, and who will nudge and remind any other man who forgets
his
> responsibility. Yet somehow they all seem to have a great time and enjoy
> the dancing and the social aspect of the evening.
Yes, we do look down our noses to ballroom dancers and others too ;-). After
all aren't we the only *cool* ones? Isn't tango the only truly fine and
excellent dance? Well, all kidding aside, tango is very different and
exclusive. One can find similar situations in the Salsa clubs and in some of
the swing dance scenes. The best dancers always seem to mostly want to dance
with the other *best* dancers. Sure, some guys will go after the young and
beautiful women, but if these *babes* can't dance, all their looks will not
get them too many dances. It really is all about dancing with those who
dance well.
> We have heard here before
> from tangueros who protest the evening is for THEIR enjoyment, and why
> should they feel obliged to dance with ladies who are not their favorites.
> Fair enough. But if that is really the kind of dancing people want, they
> can get it by staying home and rolling up the living room rug. Dancing,
> even souldful, passionate Argentine tango, is a social experience. There
is
> a community. Communities may thrive or wither. It's in our hands.
Sure tango is a social experience but it certainly is not an
*indiscriminate* experience. Soulfulness and passion are not automatically
available from just any partner. Anyway, Frank's question was more about how
ladies who come to milongas with escorts can indicate they are available and
willing to dance with other partners. I've watched Frank dance and circulate
in milongas and he does a wonderful job of dancing with many ladies. I'm
sure the ladies enjoy his dancing and his manners too. I think Frank was
asking the question for some others who do not have his ease with asking the
women to dance. He is right, sometimes it is difficult to know if one may
ask a certain woman to dance without risking either rejection or offending
her escort.
I say, in the USA it is probably safe to assume she can be asked to dance if
she is sitting alone while her escort is out dancing with other ladies
himself. As for the other ladies who sit through the evening without getting
asked to dance, that is another problem and requires a whole thread of
discussion by itself. IMHO, I think that women who dance well will generally
get to dance a lot. Ditto for men, the best solution would seem to be to
practice a lot and attend classes where you meet others who'll know you, ask
you to dance and show you off so others will want to dance with you.
Que no planchen en las milongas!
Manuel
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:23:42 MST
From: Judy Margolis <tangomas @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Women waiting and wanting to dance
Melinda
You raise an interesting point. Personally, as a male dancer, I am more
insecure about dancing with a woman above my skill level. I'm never quite
sure if the dance goes well because of my ability to lead and interpret the
music or her ability to make good any of my errors. I am far more
comfortable dancing with women of my skill level or a little below. And
dancing with beginners becomes an exercise in control and discipline which,
I think, makes me a better dancer. I try for some kind of balance
throughout any given evening, dancing with women of all levels.
Jon y Judy
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:47:40 -0400
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Women waiting and waiting to dance
Men can benefit, IMO, by dancing with beginners because it takes a lot of
skill to adjust to a beginners way of dancing.
This exercise will increase the man's sensibility, improvisational skill and
most of all his lead.
There will be ladies that will not cross, so you devise an entire tango
where there is no need for her to cross.
Generally speaking you will have to get the feeling of what she is able to
follow ( a real challenge) then make sure that you do not lead anything she
is unable to do. Since she does not readily follow your lead then you
develop your skills as a leader. If you are the great dancer you think you
are, the lady will finish her tango with a feeling of accomplishment and
happiness. She will be grateful and become your admirer.
Having said this, I think that the best way to find one or more partners as
you are learning is at the lessons and practicas.
It is important that the instructor encourages changing partners as he
teaches.
Finally men should make a conscious effort to dance with several beginners
at every milonga.
As Manuel said, Chicas espero que no planchen. An expression of meaning
difficult to translate. ( girls I hope you do not sit all night long ironing
your dress with your butt). :)
End of TANGO-L Digest - 12 Jun 2000 to 13 Jun 2000 (#2000-161)
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