The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 14 Jul 2000
to 15 Jul 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 03:00:34 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 14 Jul 2000 to 15 Jul 2000 (#2000-193)
There are 6 messages totalling 311 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tango Por Dos video (2)
2. Analysis, passion and the exclusivity of tango (2)
3. Social Dance Versus Posing
4. Social Dance Versus Posing (Larry Duke)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:56:00 +0100
From: Chris John Jordan <chrisjj @EMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango Por Dos video
Can anyone tell me if/where I can buy a video (VHS or DVD) of the original Tango Por Dos
show i.e. the version starring Miguel Zotto and Milena Plebs?
Thanks.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:48:59 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango Por Dos video
The Tango X 2 video is available from Linda Valentino. Information
for ordering online can be found on her website:
<http://www.apurotango.com/>.
It may also be available from Danel & Maria Bastone.
<http://www.TangoCentral.com/bailemostango/>
I have no financial interest in this information.
--Steve de Tejas
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Tango Por Dos video
Author: <chrisjj @email.com> at dalsmtp
Date: 7/14/00 12:56 PM
Can anyone tell me if/where I can buy a video (VHS or DVD) of the original
TangoPor Dos
show i.e. the version starring Miguel Zotto and Milena Plebs?
Thanks.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:37:34 +0100
From: white95r <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Analysis, passion and the exclusivity of tango
I've been reading with interest and participating in various threads about
"technique and analyses vs. passion" and "exclusivity vs. welcoming people
into tango". I also see the efforts of people such as Tom S. in Denver are
about to take form and actualize. Looks like Denver is about to have the
first nationwide tango exchange with it's exclusively "apilado style"
milongas. I wish them great success!
A couple of questions come to my mind and maybe this will be good time to
ask for answers. In a previous post, Leonardo said "Tom's post focuses more
on the difficulties experienced by the tango community in achieving a
balance between analysis and emotional expression." and "This gets back to
what Tom Stermitz addressed in his post "that a tango community needs to
have an enjoyable atmosphere. Tango communities need to be inclusive rather
than exclusive. If we really love tango, we should want
to share it with as many others as possible and be patient with the
challenges facing newcomers. There should be a friendly, welcoming
atmosphere."
I guess I'm a little unclear about the "balance between analysis and
emotional expression" in Tom's community. I thought that the "apilado"
method was the norm in Tom's community. For me, it is a very user friendly
style and it requires very little in the way of analysis and a very narrow
range of technique. I don't think an "apilado" dancer need to analyze much
;) Certainly, emotional expression should not be difficult while enjoying a
sweet and intimate embrace? Anyway, I want to know what parts of the close
embrace are open to analyses.
Also, I find it a interesting for Tom of all people to stage an "exclusively
close embrace" tango weekend. This seem to go against the " Tango
communities need to be inclusive rather than exclusive. If we really love
tango, we should want to share it with as many others as possible".
My goodness, I dance a close embrace much of the time, actually almost 100%
during milongas (dance parties), but what of the many other fine dancers who
prefer a classical "salon" style of dance? Let's forget for a minute all the
dancers who actually enjoy firuletes and turns, but wont this exclusivity
tend to drive away potential dancers or newcomers who are not yet ready to
press their breasts against their (unfamiliar) partner? It is for sure that
this would exclude the majority of dancers I've seen in the 'Belle Epoque'
in NYC ;-) (great dancers and they love their tango moves!)
Hey, don't get me wrong. I love a close embrace tango. Some of you have seen
me dance, you know that I'm not at all a "show" dancer (I wish I was skilled
enough to dance as well as some of the show tango dancers I've seen). I hope
Tom's apilado tango event is very successful and well attended. Please let
us all know how it turns out. I would also like to hear of any other such
events, especially if they are open to all (Argentine) tango dancers. I'll
definitely consider travelling to enjoy a greater variety of good tango
partners.
Wonderful tangos to all,
Manuel
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:16:20 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Analysis, passion and the exclusivity of tango
Manuel wrote:
>Looks like Denver is about to have the first nationwide tango exchange with
>it's exclusively "apilado style" milongas.
>A couple of questions come to my mind and maybe this will be good time to
>ask for answers. Tom Stermitz addressed in his post Tango communities need
>to be inclusive rather than exclusive. ... There >should be a friendly,
>welcoming atmosphere." ... For me, it [Apilado] is a very user friendly
>style and it requires very little in the way of analysis and a very narrow
>range of technique.
>Also, I find it a interesting for Tom of all people to stage an
>"exclusively close embrace" tango weekend. This seem to go against the
>Tango communities need to be inclusive rather than exclusive. [W]on't
>this exclusivity tend to drive away potential dancers or newcomers who are
>not yet ready to press their breasts against their (unfamiliar) partner?
I think the apilado-style weekend will do just as Manuel predicts. Those
dancers who prefer to dance salon or orillero style probably will not make
the trip to Denver. If there are really sharp distinctions between styles
and the music played to support the styles, the exclusivity may be a good
thing. People attending the weekend will not have to worry that too little
D'Arienzo, Biagi or Tanturi will be played at the milongas, or that others
attending will not be interested their most preferred style.
At most of the tango weeks, instruction in salon and orillero style dancing
is typically emphasized. Some tango weeks also include a little apilado
and fantasia style tango. So maybe, a little exclusivity will be just the
ticket to create a different and successful event.
I agree with Manuel's overall observation that emphasizing the distinctions
between styles of tango (apilado, salon and orillero) rather than the
common elements reduces inclusivity and promotes exclusivity. Personally,
I see the different social styles as existing on a continuum with many
skills and ideas transferrable between styles. I find the emphasis on the
distinctions between styles as promoting divisiveness within a relatively
small tango world rather than promoting growth.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:05:12 -0700
From: Larry Duke <auto_d20 @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Social Dance Versus Posing
--- Larry Carroll <larrydla @JUNO.COM> wrote:
> I totally agree with Pete that this kind
> of
> activity on a crowded floor demonstrates that these
> people
> are assholes, idiots, or ignorant.
What happened to civility in Tango? Why is everyone so
rude, self-centered and arrogant? Everywhere are the
insulting, degrading, screaming pig-faced idiots
demanding that the world stop and listen to them.
A special place in hell is reserved for the obnoxious,
self-centered pukes who KNOW that they can't dance a
Tango worth a damn. Hell is actually too good a place
for them.
Why are there so many people that think the world
revolves around them?
I actually am surprised that there are no milonga
shootings. I'm surprised there is no violence in Tango
dance clubs, given the level of selfishness and
rudeness exhibited every day by the trolls that
inhabit our Tango world.
It is a very good thing that I didn't get the Uzi I
asked Santa for. I personally think that violence
creates very, very bad karma for your next life, but
I've had moments I'm not very proud of. Do we need to
assign nuns with rulers to wack every Tango dancer who
doesn't follow the line of dance?
Do we need Miss Manners to be posted at every dance to
remind people not to waste the time of others?
Being polite to each other is one of the things that
separates us from animals. Unfortunately I've seen too
much beastly behavior lately, to expect much from the
human race.
Larry "El" Duke.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:34:46 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Social Dance Versus Posing (Larry Duke)
If I understood you correctly (and please, accept my
sincerest apologies if I did not), you were incensed
by Larry Carroll s name calling, either in principle,
or because you feel identified in some way with his
targets, or something. Then you may also be able to
sympathise with the somewhat passionate feelings of
many tango fans (myself included) on the matter of
the sharing of the floor.
At a minimum, this involves frustration with having
one s freedom to dance unnecessarily limited by those
who clog, commandeer, run into, and even fight for
territory (e.g., race you to an inviting piece of
lebensraum), rather than help create a smooth and
musical ronda del baile , and what difference that
makes! End result: everybody, including the
inconsiderate, has less freedom, and a milonga that in
Buenos Aires would be like we threw a party and
nobody came can look like a mad jumble of flaying
arms and legs, and feel more crowded than the floor of
the NY Stock Exchange on triple witch day.
Then there is the incessant, and most unwelcome, if
perhaps mostly harmless, bumping. Because it involves
ladies being mauled, stomped, etc, by possibly pretty
heavy people, it creates a very real feeling of
discomfort in a gentleman who has accepted
responsibility for his partner, and in essence joint
responsibility for the safety and pleasure of all
ladies on the floor. Last, and not least, serious
accidents, albeit not often, do occur, and I have seen
them occur. They hurt, and they can, and do, disable
people, men as well as women, seriously enough that
they have to seek treatment.
Maybe Larry Carroll s words are not as nearly insults,
as a way of putting a straightforward analysis of the
problem into a pithy statement. Here is my
interpretation. Either a person is made aware of the
issues and given an opportunity to learn (from
teachers, books, Tango-L postings, uh, thinking, etc)
the established ways of dealing with the sharing of
the dance space, or that is not the case. If the
latter, then it is fair to call him ignorant, which
means not knowledgeable.
If he is not ignorant, then either he is capable of
understanding the import of the issues, and of putting
in practice the rules and principles explained to
him, or he is not. In the latter case, since the
matters involved here are not quite at the level of
splitting the atom, one might be inclined to think
that he is cognitively challenged. Here Larry Carrol s
word choice, namely, idiot , is not the best: he
should have said cognitively challenged or something
to that effect.
If he is neither ignorant nor an idi I mean,
cognitively challenged, and still does not behave,
then by all appearances he does not care whether or
not he is being inconsiderate towards others, or a
nuisance, or dangerous. He seems unconcerned with the
need for mutual respect, kindness, and all that, even
incapable of enlightened self-interest; and he would
appear to be short on aesthetic sense, as well. Would
you not be inclined to say that such a person is
somewhat uncivilized, perhaps even a jerk? Again,
Larry Carrol s word choice is odd. English is not my
mother tongue, but I think an asshole is something
else altogether.
If he is not ignorant, does not have learning
disabilities, and is not an ass I mean, a cad, then
he will co-operate with his peers (for once the word
would then have been correctly used) to create a
stately river of couples harmoniously tangoing,
creole-waltzing or walking the milonga around the
salon, as if at the Confiteria Ideal, with nice
curves, eddies and wavelets, called la ronda del
baile, rather than some cockamamie storm in a tea pot
(please notice my delicate choice of words).
In closing let me say that the last category is not
very numerous, alas, in my neck of the woods. That is
not because it is outnumbered by a combination of the
brutes and the dumb. No, here ignorance is at the root
of all evil. Why so? That is matter not just for
another posting, but an entire site.
I did read Miss Manners once. Does it show?
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 14 Jul 2000 to 15 Jul 2000 (#2000-193)
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