The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 10 Jul 2000
to 11 Jul 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 03:00:44 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 10 Jul 2000 to 11 Jul 2000 (#2000-189)
There are 11 messages totalling 611 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Rueda, Swango (3)
2. Personal Experiences
3. A dancer stole my wife
4. Tangasms in BsAs (3)
5. Social Dance Versus Posing (2)
6. non-argentine tango
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:42:59 +0200
From: Virginia Gift <vgift @ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Rueda, Swango
Dear List Members,
Does anyone know anything about Tango Rueda? Is it only a West Coast
phenonema? Was it 'invented' by Fabian Salas and Daniel Lapadula?
What is it, exactly?
How about Swango? What is it?
Where are these being danced? ARE they being danced?
Thanks for any help.
Virginia
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:00:24 +0200
From: Primoz Potocnik <primoz.potocnik @GUEST.ARNES.SI>
Subject: Re: Personal Experiences
On July 03, 2000, Virginia Gift wrote:
> I am writing a social history of tango that attempts to unravel and
> explain the fascination and power of the tango.
> Since so many on the Tango-List write so eloquently about tango I
> decided it would be a good idea to include an entire section of direct
> quotes from dancers about their experiences, and I am positive that both
> tango dancers and non-tango dancers would be interested in reading responses
> to the following questions.
> a ---How has your life changed since you began dancing tango?
Since my first tango steps two years ago my life definitely has changed. With
each step, tango mystery is revealing its meaning, power and beauty, and often
the ecstatic tango experiences are transformed into profound lessons teaching
me how to live and how to die.
The sophisticated complexity of tango is enriching the quality of life by
giving us the opportunity to shine, to express the inner beauty, to open the
heart, to give and to share our best. Tango is a story of meeting and sharing,
fulfilling the natural tendency to develop skills, to play, to communicate and
to be absorbed by the magic of the moments.
Dance is divine. The meditative tango experience of harmoniously ordering the
body, mind and consciousness has a special transforming power, giving me a
feeling of moving further along the path of the evolution of the self. Such
experiences are inevitably shifting the quality of life to new dimensions.
Through tango I am reading some of the most touching lines of the poetry of
life. Tango is the awareness of the present moment. It is ecstatic and
transcendental. To understand tango is to dance tango.
> b.---What has been your most interesting/memorable experience with tango?
The art gallery was empty on late afternoon and the atmosphere was filled with
almost physically touchable powerful sensation. In that sacred place we danced
a silent tango, listening only to our inner reality and to the echo of our
breathing. For an hour we swept across the floor with the steps gradually
reaching the unusually high level of synchronization. I felt the growing
intensity, pulsating energy, fusion and connection. My consciousness was
altered by the intensity of the evolving Flow experience. It seemed that
principles of leading and following were somehow substituted by the inner
guidance emanating from the unification of attention and energy. On that day
we traveled far, reaching a novel quality beyond the horizon I knew before.
Finally arriving at the last step, stopping the movement but not the fire
within, slowly disconnecting. "No words ... just tango," she sad when we left.
Primoz Potocnik, Ljubljana, Slovenia
LiberTangoFlow http://www2.arnes.si/~ppotoc/tango
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:46:43 -0400
From: Nitin Kibe <nkibe @WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: A dancer stole my wife
This is an amusing piece in the Financial Times, July 8/9.
http://timeoff.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3J0F9PCAC&live=true&tagid=ZZZD93AX70C
There is a website at the end of the article which gives additional details, including tango specific. I wonder if
some listeros have tried the offerings and have views to share?
http://www.danceholidays.com/
Enjoy and good wishes to all.
Nitin Kibe
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:22:33 -0500
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rueda, Swango
As far as I know, Swango is a combination of swing and tango which can
be danced to any form of music. I believe Daniel Trenner is among the
people investigating this experimental form of dance.
I believe there was brief about Tango Rueda discussion on Tango-L a
while back. I do not recall the discussion in sufficient detail to
write anything in confidence, but perhaps a search of the archives
might produce something.
--Steve de Tejas
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Rueda, Swango
Author: Virginia Gift <vgift @attglobal.net> at dalsmtp
Date: 7/10/00 12:42 PM
Dear List Members,
Does anyone know anything about Tango Rueda? Is it only a West Coast
phenonema? Was it 'invented' by Fabian Salas and Daniel Lapadula?
What is it, exactly?
How about Swango? What is it?
Where are these being danced? ARE they being danced?
Thanks for any help.
Virginia
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:53:35 GMT
From: ASTRID SATO <astridsato @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tangasms in BsAs
>From: Tom Ronquillo <tigrre @EARTHLINK.NET>
>Reply-To: Tom Ronquillo <tigrre @EARTHLINK.NET>
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: Tangasms in BsAs
>Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 15:55:35 -0500
>
>At 11:14 AM 7/4/00 -0400, Ingle, Nancy wrote:
>> Can a mature woman, more Marilyn than Audrey, praised for her
>>intelligence rather than her beauty, with about six years of tango
>>experience find happiness and awesome tango dancing in BsAs? The answer
>>is a definitive "YES!"
>
>Greetings to the lovely Nancy and List members,
>
>A mature woman who carries herself well - meaning one who radiates
>confidence and quiet sensuality that comes from life's experiences - can
>find happiness and awesome tango dancing anywhere in the world, even if she
>knows only the simplest of tango fundamentals.
>
>It is worth keeping in mind that, when the dust settles from the stampede
>of men rushing toward the youngest of the tangueras, there will be a few
>men of discriminating tastes who will continue to scan the room. They will
>be looking for that special tanguera - the one who's womanly manner has
>been refined by the passing of years.
>
>(Portions snipped)
>> My travelling companion is a lovely slim woman, ten years younger,
>>with similar dance abilities. You would think she would get all the
>>guys, wouldn't you?
>
>I wouldn't think that. The fashion and entertainment industries have
>foisted the image of very young and slender (bony?) women as the ultimate
>beauty standard for women. In the real world, in many countries, a bit of
>roundness in a woman is viewed as sexy by men.
>
>Some tangueras bodies are so thin and delicate that dancing with them is
>like dancing with smoke. There just doesn't seem to be much to hold on
>to. A more substantial woman, on the other hand, feels solid and vibrant
>in the abrazo. They don't feel like they'll break if you do a little
>zarandeo (shake) with them.
>
>There is a place in the milonga for women and men of all ages and
>sizes. Everyone will have their particular preferences in partners for
>experiencing the tango moment. I am merely claiming a spot for the old
>folks.
>
>El Tigre - a half-century old tanguero
--
Dear Tigre,
What you wrote, made me feel so good ! I am living in Japan, and as a German
woman of average build plus muscles and curves have to compete with all
these dainty demure 48 kg Japanese girls.
However, I found, the better I learn how to dance, the lighter I seem to be
to lead. still, it is interesting to know, that skinny women "feel like
smoke". For women it is hard to know how they feel to a man . I would be
very interested to hear more experiences of other male dancers they
experience dancing with certain women they enjoy or don4t like dancing with.
Any comments ?
Astrid
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:03:42 -0700
From: Judith Farkas <judith @PARACEL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rueda, Swango
Dear List
I first witnessed Tango Rueda during the 1995 or 1996 Stanford Tango week
and the parties involved with Daniel, Rebecca and Mariela. It was at
Frankie's milonga ( Ruvano's ) in San Francisco. I have no idea who
invented it.
Judith
At 12:42 PM 7/10/00 +0200, Virginia Gift wrote:
>Dear List Members,
> Does anyone know anything about Tango Rueda? Is it only a West Coast
>phenonema? Was it 'invented' by Fabian Salas and Daniel Lapadula?
> What is it, exactly?
> How about Swango? What is it?
> Where are these being danced? ARE they being danced?
>Thanks for any help.
>Virginia
Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
650.766.7328 Cell
judith @paracel.com
www.paracel.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:49:43 -0500
From: Tom Ronquillo <tigrre @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Tangasms in BsAs
At 11:53 AM 7/10/00 +0000, ASTRID SATO wrote:
>Dear Tigre,
>What you wrote, made me feel so good !
There you have it! The essence of what a tanguero should be capable of
accomplishing: making a woman feel good. And we haven't even danced yet.
>I am living in Japan, and as a German
>woman of average build plus muscles and curves have to compete with all
>these dainty demure 48 kg Japanese girls.
No real competition there. If those Nihonjin men have been around Japanese
women for most of their lives, you will seem like an exotic Germanic
goddess to them. Enjoy your power.
>However, I found, the better I learn how to dance, the lighter I seem to be
>to lead.
An excellent point, Astrid. A woman, whether 85 lbs or 800 lbs, must be
able to maintain her balance and be nimble on her feet while dancing
tango. This, coupled with being alert and responsive to the lead, is the
basic necessity for good tango. Anything beyond that, such as adornos for
example, becomes artistic creativity to enhance the physical conversation.
> still, it is interesting to know, that skinny women "feel like
>smoke". For women it is hard to know how they feel to a man .
I'd better clarify what my original smoke statement intended to convey
before the slender tangueras start plotting my demise. Bear in mind, these
are El Tigre's observations and they may not reflect those of other tangueros.
Some women (and men, my wife reminds) seem to give no physical feedback
during a tango. When I dance with a woman, regardless of her age, I want
to feel her presence in my abrazo. For me, tango is not merely an exercise
in movement. It is a physical encounter with a woman set to music. It is
an adventure that allows men and women to exalt in their sensual prowess in
a mature way that does not offend. Why dance tango, if not for the sheer
physical pleasure the experience?
Delicate women have less body mass than their average to larger sisters, so
physical feedback is noticeably less in my experience - hence the dancing
with smoke reference. This doesn't make them bad dancers. This observation
also only applies to non-professional dancers. One would have no trouble
with physical feedback from any of the delicate professional Argentine
tangueras.
I happen to think that Elba Garcia and Esther Pugliese are very sexy women
at their age because of the way they carry themselves and they way they
dance. One quick, deft adorno by either one of them is marvelously sexy to
me and proof that tango and sensuality are not strictly the province of the
young and slender.
El Tigre
>I would be
>very interested to hear more experiences of other male dancers they
>experience dancing with certain women they enjoy or don4t like dancing with.
>Any comments ?
>Astrid
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:16:58 -0700
From: Melville Fox <moby_fox @YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tangasms in BsAs
Tom Ronquillo wrote:
"Some women (and men, my wife reminds) seem to give no
physical feedback during a tango. When I dance with a
woman, regardless of her age, I want to feel her
presence in my abrazo. For me, tango is not merely an
exercise in movement. It is a physical encounter with
a woman set to music. It is an adventure that allows
men and women to exalt in their sensual prowess in a
mature way that does not offend. Why dance tango, if
not for the sheer physical pleasure the experience?
Delicate women have less body mass than their average
to larger sisters, so physical feedback is noticeably
less in my experience - hence the dancing with smoke
reference. This doesn't make them bad dancers. This
observation also only applies to non-professional
dancers. One would have no trouble with physical
feedback from any of the delicate professional
Argentine tangueras. I happen to think that Elba
Garcia and Esther Pugliese are very sexy women at
their age because of the way they carry themselves and
they way they dance. One quick, deft adorno by either
one of them is marvelously sexy to me and proof that
tango and sensuality are not strictly the province of
the young and slender."
___________________________________
Well-stated, El Tigre!! I agree with you entirely, but
would like to make some minor modifications to your
point of view (if indeed they are modifications at
all).
Although I think one will notice the weight difference
less in women with greater dance expertise, I've found
some thin dance instructors less pleasureable to dance
with than some heavier women with less expertise,
because it is more difficult to feel the presence of
the lighter women, regardless of their skill.
In any case, I don't think it's really a matter of
weight per se that makes a man feel the presence of a
woman in tango. A heavy woman can feel limp in your
arms and a thin woman can feel like she's going to
capture you with her passionate body. It's the muscle
tone she gives you when she moves that makes her
exciting - the firm but relenting resistance to your
movements, the confident stride of her ochos and
giros, the zest of her boleos, the impetus of her
ganchos. It's really a matter of momentum (= mass x
velocity), not weight alone which creates the
excitement of the interaction. Thus, the heavier woman
has somewhat of an inherent advantage over the lighter
woman (as long as she fits comfortably within the
abrazo), but it is mostly muscle mass that makes the
difference.
This should be no surprise, since isn't tango the same
as making love? :-)
Mel
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:31:46 +1000
From: A & AB Athanassiou <athanass @OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Social Dance Versus Posing
At 10:41 AM 7/7/00 +0800, you wrote
>I am currently living in Perth, Western Australia and have been dancing
>Tango for about a year now.
Greetings from Brisbane, Australia.
We have an active and growing Tango scene here in Brisbane and as a
part-time instructor I can relate closely with what you say. Our Tango
community here is very close and some are on this newsgroup so I will
choose my words carefully. What is interesting is that I have met a couple
of the Tango teachers from Perth and would be surprised if they would
tolerate this sort of dancing, both have been excellent dancers and showed
humility and sensitivity in their teaching styles.
>Do you think it is fair, for supposed experts, to dominate floorspace
Absolutely NOT. But what you are saying is what our scene went through
when we first started our regular Tango nights a couple of years
ago. Perhaps it is the eagerness of the new scene that encourages their
anti-social behaviour. What you describe sounds like "show" Tango that
should be left for demonstrations only. It has little place in a close
social environment.
What has helped us correct these excesses is the growth of numbers and the
general improvement in the quality of the dancing of us all. As the
standard improved, so too did the lack of acceptance of such dance
styles. Having said this, it is still a problem for us here. There are
too many men (yes sorry guys) who use the dance floor as their own personal
race-track, running their partners around the room as quickly as they can
and showing clear "affrontery" when they come up against a couple of
beginners who are not moving out of the way. It is a shame we cannot
remember how it was when WE were at the same level.
>There is no passion, there is no life, just legs....
Very observant and how sadly true. I often see couples stopping in the
middle of the floor so that one partner can tell the other what they want
them to do. For me the question is ; If the man is leading clearly, why is
there a need for discussion.?
>Does this sort of thing happen in other communities???
As you can see, it sometimes does. But the ray of hope is in the growth of
your Tango community and in the general improvement of quality by
all. Once you have this, you will see less acceptance of "show" Tango and
a closer attention to fine dancing.
Regards.
Arthur
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:47:45 -0700
From: Judith Farkas <judith @PARACEL.COM>
Subject: Re: Social Dance Versus Posing
Hi Irene!
Our address and contact information is as follows:
Ruddy Zelaya
Judith Farkas
25267 Morse Court
Hayward, CA 94542
510.889.1672 home
510.583.6175 office
650.766.7328 cell
I will give you directions from 880 as I am more familiar with that route,
but 580 is also a possibility. As I mentioned, please do check with
www.mapquest.com to double check my directions or to look for alternative
routes.
Take 880 S, to 92 E ( Jackson ) and continue for several miles Eastbound on
Jackson. Turn right onto Mission for 4 - 5 blocks. Turn left onto Carlos
Bee and proceed up a large hill. Carlos Bee goes to the right into the
Cal State Hayward Campus, but you need to continue straight onto Hayward
Boulevard, but this change in street will not be apparent to you. You
will see a red Cal Stae Hayward sign on the right hand sign and at the next
light, make a left onto Campus Drive. Make a left onto Highland followed by
an immediate right onto Morse Court. Our house is the last house on the
left side of the court at the end. As an aside, you will see Highland
Avenue off of Mission before you see Carlos Bee. Do not turn left there
as it will not allow you access to our street.
As promised, I have arranged for a translator for both the beginning class
at 7 PM and the intermediate class at 8 PM. If Nito and Elba wish to
teach a 6 PM private, please let me know such that I can again, arrange for
a translator if required. The translator is Jade Burns in the event that
Nito and Elba ask. Jade will also join us for dinner at the Italian
restaurant after the classes. Again, as I mentioned, the dinner will be
my treat for Nito, Elba and Jade as well.
Please do feel free to call me with any questions that arise. We are
flexible and happy to contribute for the benefit of Nito & Elba's
granddaughter. We will be happy to work out any additional details,
concerns or conflicts.
Best Regards,
Judith
At 10:31 AM 7/11/00 +1000, A & AB Athanassiou wrote:
>At 10:41 AM 7/7/00 +0800, you wrote
>
>>I am currently living in Perth, Western Australia and have been dancing
>>Tango for about a year now.
>
>Greetings from Brisbane, Australia.
>
>We have an active and growing Tango scene here in Brisbane and as a
>part-time instructor I can relate closely with what you say. Our Tango
>community here is very close and some are on this newsgroup so I will
>choose my words carefully. What is interesting is that I have met a couple
>of the Tango teachers from Perth and would be surprised if they would
>tolerate this sort of dancing, both have been excellent dancers and showed
>humility and sensitivity in their teaching styles.
>
>>Do you think it is fair, for supposed experts, to dominate floorspace
>
>Absolutely NOT. But what you are saying is what our scene went through
>when we first started our regular Tango nights a couple of years
>ago. Perhaps it is the eagerness of the new scene that encourages their
>anti-social behaviour. What you describe sounds like "show" Tango that
>should be left for demonstrations only. It has little place in a close
>social environment.
>
>What has helped us correct these excesses is the growth of numbers and the
>general improvement in the quality of the dancing of us all. As the
>standard improved, so too did the lack of acceptance of such dance
>styles. Having said this, it is still a problem for us here. There are
>too many men (yes sorry guys) who use the dance floor as their own personal
>race-track, running their partners around the room as quickly as they can
>and showing clear "affrontery" when they come up against a couple of
>beginners who are not moving out of the way. It is a shame we cannot
>remember how it was when WE were at the same level.
>
>>There is no passion, there is no life, just legs....
>
>Very observant and how sadly true. I often see couples stopping in the
>middle of the floor so that one partner can tell the other what they want
>them to do. For me the question is ; If the man is leading clearly, why is
>there a need for discussion.?
>
>>Does this sort of thing happen in other communities???
>
>As you can see, it sometimes does. But the ray of hope is in the growth of
>your Tango community and in the general improvement of quality by
>all. Once you have this, you will see less acceptance of "show" Tango and
>a closer attention to fine dancing.
>
>
>Regards.
>Arthur
Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
650.766.7328 Cell
judith @paracel.com
www.paracel.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:37:43 +1000
From: A & AB Athanassiou <athanass @OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: non-argentine tango
At 05:52 PM 7/6/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: non-argentine tango
>To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
> > From: robin thomas: i'm very interested in the international history of
> the tango.
> >
Michael - a fascinating article on the History of Tango that I will enjoy
reading many times over.
RE; Italian Tango music, I have Greek heritage and my parents were both
born and raised in Alexandria, Egypt. As a result, my Dad has a lot of old
music from when he was there in the 40's. One tape he has is
called; "TANGHI CELEBRI CANTATI" by Enrico Musiani. with Orchestra of
Mario Battaini.
The label on the tape says; Distributed by DUCK RECORDS S.r.L. Via
Magellano 7/9 Corsico (Milano) tel 4403281 - 4405551. Obviously the above
address is an old one but it may give you a start. As it is on "cassette"
it is obviously not too old, but it seems to be a re-recording from an
older source.
This is a fine selection of Italian Tango songs, I have no idea what the
words mean, but the music is great. The main reason I like it is because
it has a wonderful rendition of what is perhaps my favourite Tango ...
"Violino Tzigano" (Gypsy Violin).
Thank you again for your article and hope the above helps.
Greetings to all from Brisbane / Australia.
Arthur
End of TANGO-L Digest - 10 Jul 2000 to 11 Jul 2000 (#2000-189)
**************************************************************