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Digest from 28 Feb 2000
to 29 Feb 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 28 Feb 2000 to 29 Feb 2000 (#2000-57)
There are 9 messages totalling 480 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tango as meditation (3)
2. Guitar... on Argentine tango (3)
3. It may take two, but ten is dynamite
4. N.P. (No Place)
5. Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 23:55:10 -0800
From: Sramana Mitra <sramana.mitra @UUMA.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango as meditation
Dear Kate,
> meditation. Anyone else experienced this one?
Yes.
Long ago, when I had started getting serious about tango, a friend &
teacher
explained Tango to me as: Argentine style Tantra. [Tantra is an Indian
spiritual
practise that has in its core the idea of total awareness and bliss
through the
communion between a man and a woman.] There are many versions of Tantra
that draw
from Buddhism and Hinduism.
The image stuck with me. For those who are interested, please read a
book called
"Tantric Quest - An Encounter with Absolute Love" by Daniel Odier.
Another spiritual teacher, Osho Rajneesh, although much criticized for
his collection
of Rolls Royces and encouragement of abundant sexual activity as a
release for repression,
has some similar explanations of God. He explains God as a mental state
- of bliss, of perfect
harmony - a state that can be as trivial as when one looks at a
beautiful flower and feels
a connection. The best form of this connection, obviously, is the
man-woman communion.
Indeed, there are many parallels.
Sramana
--
Sramana Mitra
President & CEO
sramana @uuma.com
415-905-5566 x209 voice
408-602-8914 cell
415-905-5560 fax
Win $5,000 in designer clothing at http://www.uuma.com - sign up today!
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:27:15 -0700
From: Daniel Diaz <dan @INTELLINKS.COM>
Subject: Guitar... on Argentine tango
Jean-Pierre Jacquet writes:
"I have seen many live tango groups with excellent guitarists. Yet these
combos seem to treat the guitar as part of the rhythm section (` la jazz
mainstream pre be-bop tradition), with the rarest break where the
guitarist departs from his metronomical strumming."
Jean-Pierre:
You make a good observation and I agree that many groups don't allow the
guitar to shine as an important part of a tango group which uses that
great instrument. It is a pity.
As you know, in the earlier times of tango, the guitar was an important
instrument in duos, later trios and so on. In keeping with that
heritage, we later enjoyed great duos, trios and quartets with
bandoneon, guitar, double bass and other instruments. When the piano
arrived to the tango orchestras, it took the part of the guitar. You
will notice on most orchestras that the piano for the most part, plays
accompaniment, with important solos injected throughout the piece and
other typical tango adornments. If today, we would use the guitar as
such a way, then guitar would have more participation than just
strumming. I do enjoy playing in groups which include guitars, and I
like to have them do parts of the melody, harmonic orchestrations, etc.
The deep bass note of the guitar doing scales and other harmonic
adornments can not be emphasize enough.
We ought to keep in mind also the type of music we are playing. If it is
for listening only or for dancing. When we play for dancing we need to
be more rhythmical, thus every body in the group gets to do
accompaniment.
The recordings of Anibal Troilo, Ciriaco Ortiz or Leopoldo Federico with
Roberto Grela are good examples of the great possibilities of the
combination of bandoneon and guitar. Piano and guitar with Salgan-DeLio
are great examples of the possibilities of such a duo. I always like to
add a double bass or a guitarron to enhance the group. It fuses the
whole group better. You should be able to find some of the recordings I
mention above.
At The Rio Plata Institute we are considering the possibility of
presenting a Argentine tango guitar performance workshop by bringing in
one of the greatest Argentine guitarrist, Victor Sanchez. He would teach
how to play Argentine tango on guitar. If you, or others out there are
interested in knowing more about the subject please let me know.
Daniel Diaz. Founder and director of The Tango Camerata
The Rio Plata Institute http://www.intellinks.com/rioplata
mailto:rioplata @intellinks.com
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:10:14 -0800
From: America Mauhar <amauhar @TPIMS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango as meditation
Kate writes:
>The meditation people who don't understand what tango's really
>about think this is utterly incongruous, but the dancers generally get
>it. I dance well at that milonga: I am more present, more centered,
>more grounded, more *there*.
I think that dancers definitely get it. I know that simply taking the
first few moments of a dance to simply center myself with my partner and
the music has improved the feeling of the dance immensely, feeling
connected to myself, the music and him. And for the meditation people who
don't understand, there was also an all too brief article in the
March/April edition of Yoga Journal on this topic- The Tao of Tango, by
Deirdre Guthrie- which I thought had some lovely things to say on this
topic. "Like an asana practice, tango requires simultaneous surrender and
discipline... ...While dancing I am fully present, aware, as in yoga, of
the most subtle movements of my inner anatomy." So you are also not alone
amongst the practitioners of meditation. Is it any coincidence that there
is a tradition of sacred dance in so many cultures?
Kate writes:
>Being a follower who prefers to dance
>close, I dance a lot with my eyes closed, which increases the meditative
>feeling.
I know that some of my best dances occur when the floor is too crowded for
anything but the most carefully controlled and executed moves, and I am
dancing with a partner that I know very well and I can close my eyes and
just be another instrument within the music. The article that I read said
"In meditation, pratyahara (sense withdrawal) peaks when citta vritti (mind
chatter) is purged so that the senses cease to record data, allowing the
minds eye to focus inward." As only a recent and negligent practitioner of
the art of meditation, and a lifetime dancer, dancing is one of the few
places that I find that cessation of chatter, and Argentine Tango, though I
am only a beginner, to be one of the best forms of dance that I have
experienced for inward focus and meditative experience. The security and
connection of close embrace position is what really enables the release of
the external for me. There is nothing to think about but letting the
leader and the music flow through me. No worries about looking where we
are going, just doing what I feel from him and the music.
Kate writes:
>This sort of thing may be true about the serious pursuit of *any* sport
I found it to be true of lap swimming also (the water is a great sensory
deprivation agent, and swimming is so rhythmic and body aware) But I would
so much rather dance the tango :) !!!!
I certainly don't find that place every time. I feel fortunate if I find
it once in a night. Sometimes I admit to thinking about work, or my
shopping list while I dance, and when I do, the dance suffers. The
connection with the music simply isn't there, or my partner, or myself. So
I can totally understand where coming directly from a meditation session
would put you a step ahead in achieving that state of dancing/meditative
bliss.
Kate writes:
>(Leaders, even if they're so good that they don't have to
>consciously think or plan, still have to keep their eyes open, focusing
>on the external as well as the internal.)
I notice, that so far this thread is being carried by women. Is this
merely a chance occurance, of the people who have had the opporitunity to
respond? Or is this the follower's endowment only? Is it a gift for
surrendering the lead? Are there too many external concerns for the leader
to ever be able to acheive the same level of medatative bliss? Or are
there certain conditions where you can find it too? An empty floor late at
night? Or after years of dancing when avoiding external obstacles becomes
automatic? It seems relatively easy for women (followers) to slip into the
meditative state relatively easily, but how long is it before the leaders
can get there too?
Thank you Kate for the interesting thread.
America in San Diego
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:34:32 -0500
From: Nitin Kibe <nkibe @WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: It may take two, but ten is dynamite
http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?999
A review of Tango Por Dos, currently playing in London.
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:08:03 -0800
From: Mike Hamilton <mikeh @MPL.UCSD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tango as meditation
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, America Mauhar wrote:
> I notice, that so far this thread is being carried by women. Is this
> merely a chance occurance, of the people who have had the opporitunity to
> respond? Or is this the follower's endowment only? Is it a gift for
> surrendering the lead? Are there too many external concerns for the leader
> to ever be able to acheive the same level of medatative bliss? Or are
> there certain conditions where you can find it too? An empty floor late at
> night? Or after years of dancing when avoiding external obstacles becomes
> automatic? It seems relatively easy for women (followers) to slip into the
> meditative state relatively easily, but how long is it before the leaders
> can get there too?
I haven't had a chance to follow any thread really closely lately,
but, this caught my eye and I wanted to respond.
I think it's true that the ladies, the followers, are more fortunate
for having this "zen" state when they dance. From the very beginning
as a follower, that sort of state is beneficial, almost required. It
is by definition a receptive state, a listening state. I was
fortunate enough to experience this early on in my dancing at a waltz
workshop with a dear friend of mine and I felt like I was absolutely
walking on air. I became rather envious of the followers....
As a lead, especially when first starting out, there is a lot to think
about: moving your feet, leading your partner, and not running into
the myriad of other people dancing around. That's three big things to
learn right off. This requires a lot of mental processing -- at
first. But what I have found is that even these things become
automatic.... my feet move, I create spaces for my partner, and often
even avoid other dancers almost all automatically. I start to be able
to really just follow the music. Everything falls into place, and I'm
no longer thinking, just moving, guided strictly by the music. I
always try to dance to the music, but, this is different: this is
dancing to the music automatically, without trying. This is only
*starting* to happen *occasionally* after 2 years of hard work on
tango for me. It's all worth it, though. It's really a great feeling
when it does happen - like following a good lead.
> Thank you Kate for the interesting thread.
> America in San Diego
Ask me more about this Wednesday when I see you at Clayton's Cafe,
America. It's one of my favorite things to talk about ;-)
Mike Hamilton
San Diego
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:25:16 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Guitar... on Argentine tango
On their first CD, The New York-Buenos Aires Connection (now known as
the New York Tango Trio), allowed the guitarist to play solo or melody
lines. For that recording, the group played as a quintet: bandoneon,
piano, bass, guitar, and violin. In this quintet, the bassist and the
pianist could act as the rhythm section and allow the guitar player to
play the meolody.
In a trio setting without a pianist, such as Trio Pantango or Los
Tubatango, the guitarist takes over playing the rhythm parts that the
pianist might play. Pianists typically play the rhythmic
accompaniment with their left hand and are free to solo with their
right hand. Because the guitar player cannot play as many notes at
once as the pianist, the guitarist must generally choose between
playing a rhythmic accompaniment and a solo line.
In tango trios that include both a bandoneon and guitar but no piano,
the bandoneonist must take over the rhythm for the the guitarist to
solo. By its nature, the bandoneon is better suited to sustained
notes than rhythm, and the trios tend to feature bandoneon solos
against a guitar, rather than the reverse.
Why do small tango ensembles tend to include either a pianist or a
guitarist but not both? In a group that includes a piano and guitar,
the rhythm section can get very crowded harmonically. The presence a
bass instrument aggravates the crowding. The guitarist or the pianist
will often end up only playing a few notes per chord to leave space
for the other instruments. In short, the guitarist becomes a luxury
in the presence of a pianist or the pianist becomes a luxury in the
presence of a pianist.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:06:01 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck @ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guitar... on Argentine tango
Daniel Diaz writes:
> > Jean-Pierre Jacquet writes:
> > "I have seen many live tango groups with excellent guitarists. Yet these
> > combos seem to treat the guitar as part of the rhythm section (` la jazz
> > mainstream pre be-bop tradition), with the rarest break where the
> > guitarist departs from his metronomical strumming."
>
> The recordings of Anibal Troilo, Ciriaco Ortiz or Leopoldo Federico with
> Roberto Grela are good examples of the great possibilities of the
> combination of bandoneon and guitar. Piano and guitar with Salgan-DeLio
> are great examples of the possibilities of such a duo.
I am still quite new to acquainting myself with the music
of tango, but when I hear a selection on the radiotango station that
I really like, I write it down, with a notation as to why I liked
it or why it was unusual. So for what it's worth, in my notes,
I have the following entry:
Juan Carlos Cirigliano - Romance y Milonga (haunting guitar instrumental)
--Huck Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: kennedy @asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:14:08 -0800
From: Ruddy Zelaya <ruddy.zelaya @ENG.SUN.COM>
Subject: N.P. (No Place)
Barbara Garvey wrote:
>>Another example (and another of my favorites) is N.P. (one
>>version is by Troilo & Beron). To me the music sounds like a tender love
>>song, but is really about a man who buys a losing racehorse, trains and
>>cares for it, but the horse remains a loser. I'm not knowledgeable enough
>>about horse-racing to do a decent translation, but I believe that's the g=
ist
>>(and am ready to stand corrected). On the other hand, the man seems to
>>really love the horse :-).
I love a challenge ;-) Alberto, one more for the list.
Here you go:
N.P. (No Plac=E9) 1950
Juan Riverol y Francisco Loi=E1cono (Barquina)
Mirando tu performance Looking at your performance
del hip=F3dromo platense, at the [rio]platensian hippodrome,
nunca al marcador llegaste. never to the [score]board you made it.
Siempre fuiste "No Plac=E9". You were always "No Place".
Se le sent=F3 en la largada, He delayed you [the jockey] at the start,
la pecharon en el codo. they hit you[the other riders] at the turn.
Eso grit=F3 la gilada. That's what the fools yelled.
Y por eso te compr=E9! And that's why I bought you!
Me pas=E9 una temporada I spent a season
al cuidado de tus patas. taking care of your legs.
Te compr=E9 una manta nueva. I bought you a new blanket.
Y hasta apoliy=E9 en el box! I even slept in the box [stall]!=20
Relojeandote el apronte. Clocking your trial runs.
la partida a palo errado... The start at full run...
Yo no se quien me ha enga=F1ado, I don't know who fooled me,
si fuiste vos o el reloj. if it was you or the stopwatch.
Te anot=E9 en una ordinaria. I signed you up to a regular[race].
Entraste medio prendida. You started half lit.
Dijeron: Es por la monta They said: "It's because of the rider
o es bombero el cuidador". or the trainer is inept".
Es tu sangre que te pierde. It's your blood that loses
Hija de... "Desobediencia"... Sonnafa... "Disobedience"...
No saldras de perdedora, You'll never outgrow being a loser,
pues te falta coraz=F3n. because you lack heart.
Ahora corr=E9s en cuadreras... Now you race in simple races...
No ten=E9s la manta aqu=E9lla, You don't have that blanket,
no te preocupa la cancha, the [race]track doesn't worry you,
el stud, ni el cuidador. nor the trainer, nor the stud.
Pero si alg=FAn d=EDa de =E9stos But if one of these days
te vuelvo a ver anotada... I see you again written up [in the race form=
]...
Yo me juego la parada, I'll gamble my fortune,
porque soy un buen perdedor. because I'm a good loser.
Notes: In the horse racing world "No Place" refers to
a horse who does not make it to the money because it does not place
in one of the top positions, e.g., 1st, 2nd, etc.
This tango is about a mare that the singer bought and took care
of because he believed in it.
After spending a season taking care of the horse, he is
resigned to the idea that she is a loser. The horse now
races in "cuadreras" which are races where horse data (info
on prior races, surfaces, name of the sire, trainer, etc.)
is not posted.
To keep to the spirit of the song, I translated some words loosely.
For example, the word "cuidador" directly translates to "caretaker"
which is not what was intended in the lyrics. Ditto for "Hija de..."
which is a spanish double entendre that translates to "Daughter of"
but is the equivalent of "Son of a... [bitc*]".
A "Cancha" is any place where games of skill or strength are played,
e.g., soccer, or in this case the horsetrack.
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:18:57 -0800
From: Ruddy Zelaya <ruddy.zelaya @ENG.SUN.COM>
Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Hola Naifas y Garabos,
Kate wrote:
>>Are there others who think it's an advantage not to
>>really understand the words?"
Barbara wrote:
>>I can't imagine anyone preferring to not understand
>>tango lyrics. They are so rich, many are in the
>>realm of poetry rather than popular song
If I may put in my 2 cents here, the problem is not so much
with "Sur", "Malena", "Uno" and other exalted masterpieces of
tango lyrics. The problem is that for every masterpiece
there are many "also rans" that have distracting or
objectionable lyrics for one reason or another.
For example, someone mentioned here that they couldn't hit the
skip button fast enough whenever Sally Potter sang Hugo Diaz's
"Milonga Triste". I agree. I believe that the lyrics cobbled
for that haunting melodic song are so beyond redemption that
Carlitos himself could not make them palatable ;-)
There are many tangos that have lyrics that are gory "A La Luz
Del Candil" (guy is walking around with the braids of her lover
and the heart of the friend who betrayed him after killing them
both), "Silbando" (gruesome stabbing of treacherous couple
by scorned lover); there are tangos that are so sad that to dance
to them is akin to dancing to "Amazing Grace" or a Negro Spiritual:
"Silencio" (about a mother whose 5(!!) sons have been killed in WWI);
there are tangos that are downright stupid: "El Hipo" (guy loses
girl because of a case of the hiccups); about little boys
wishing to become soccer stars: "El Sue=F1o Del Pibe"; whole
melodramas about death: "La Muchacha Del Circo" and racist melodies:
"Milonga En Negro"; there are appallingly insensitive lyrics
about stutterers "El Tarta" and other assorted handicaps;
tangos about soccer teams: "Boca Jrs.", horse racing tracks "Palermo",
about being chasen in the snow by wolves, and on and on and on.
Yet, most of these tangos have beautiful melodies or are highly
danceable. Clearly then, there are cases when not knowing what
the singer is saying is absolute bliss. Lets face it, there are
some things that when said in a romance language such as spanish
or french sound great no matter what they mean, to wit:
"faites le bruit de cochon" just rolls off the tongue but if you
speak french or the phrase was said in english, "make the pig noise"
would lose all its charm... ;-)
Best regards,
---
ruddy
End of TANGO-L Digest - 28 Feb 2000 to 29 Feb 2000 (#2000-57)
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