The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 24 Feb 2000
to 25 Feb 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:00:20 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 24 Feb 2000 to 25 Feb 2000 (#2000-53)
There are 7 messages totalling 271 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Prevalence of Psychotherapy in Argentina.
2. Advantage of not understanding Castilian (5)
3. Tango in Paris?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:14:04 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Prevalence of Psychotherapy in Argentina.
Kate wrote:
"I don't agree that the strong sense of family in Lat Am has saved
individuals in those countries from feelings of isolation. Especially not
in Buenos Aires.
Argentina has many, many psychiatrists and psychologists per capita and a
high rate of suicide. And "melancolico", "amargado" and "bajoneado" are
common characteristics among more than a few porten~os."
I will answer this to throw some light on the mental attitudes where Tango
was created.
Argentina has many psychotherapists per capita indeed.
People readily accept and seek mental therapy because this does not have the
negative association that it has in other countries. Most of the
consultations are due to neurotic problems related to family or marital
problems, or due to depression.
Not due to* isolation*. A New York company completed a study that involved
many countries in reference to the feelings of happiness or unhapiness of
their respective populations. This was done in reference to the Millenium,
results to be left in a capsule to be opened an compared with similar
statistics collected in the yeaar 3000.
According to this study the people that came first feeling overall happy
were the Danish. Good old USA came out number four. Argentina number nine,
not a bad position overall, but when it came to happiness derived from
friends and family, Argentina came out number one. Next something
interesting, when it came to happiness derived from sex, Venezuela came out
number one; 85% of people reported being satisfied compared to only 45% in
the USA and Western Europe.Congratulations!
Argentina has a high incidence of depression but not feelings of
*isolation*.
There are two types of depression, "reactive" and "endogenous". Reactive
depression is due to some external factor, a loss; espouse, child,
economical situation, etc. This type has a cause, usually it is self
limited, and can be treated with psychotherapy.
The endogenous type, has no external cause, it comes "for no reason", it
could have a strong genetical correlation; usually it does not respond to
psychotherapy, it is treated with drugs, an sometimes with electric-shocks.
This last form is more prevalent in countries in the temperate/cold areas,
it is not related to degree of wealth of the nation or its people.
Argentineans and Scandinavians seem to have a high incidence of this
condition.
Immigrants from the interior and from other countries when isolated from
their families find support in friends.
Fiendship means something totally different here than what it means in other
latitudes; but to explain this could fill
several pages.
So in summary there are reasons different from isolation that might take a
person to the the Psychiatric consultation.
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:43:28 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Kate a professional translator wrote:
"For those who don't understand Spanish or who don't understand Rioplatense
Spanish, how much do you think you're missing, if you think you're missing
anything at all? Are there others who think it's an advantage not to
really understand the words?"
A few tango Lyrics were translated because of curiosity on the part of some
subscribers to be able to
read some of them and also to decipher their meaning. There are many
thousands of them and only very few
were offered for analysis. I found that the discussions with respect to the
meaning of them were very interesting
and showed genuine interest. I should also say that for every one
interpretation that was posted I received many more as private mail.
We grew up dancing to the American or British music that we loved to hear
even when we did not understand one word of English. We also enjoyed French
and Italian music. Even operas at a time when we could not understand the
words.
My answer is you can enjoy the music and dance to it even when you don't
understand the lyrics. Advantage not to understand the words? I fail to see
the point, unless you mean that the lyrics are worthless and therefore
better not to understand them .Great! but the lyrics were posted for those
that think differently.
So at least now some people know the Lyrics of "Charlemos" and "Naranjo en
floor". What is wrong with that?
Anyone interested in La Traviata? Ha! Ha!
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:06:57 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
A female friend relayed the following story to me several years ago.
She was dancing with an Argentine. Midway through a tango, he said,
"This song is about my life. I cannot dance. The words depress me."
At least in this one case, it would have been an advantage not to
understand the lyrics.
I have also heard some people express a preference for dancing to
instrumental tangos because they find the lyrics sad or depressing.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:54:15 -0500
From: Fernandez Eduardo <efernandez @IUCNUS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Stephen
Discepolo use to say that "El tango es un pensamiento triste que se baila".
So, what's wrong on being sad? It's not part of life? And "life is a
milonga"...
I think understand the lyrics is always an advantage, a way of better
understanding that dancing is only the surface of a more complex culture. A
discourse about life, values, moral and essentially, love.
I think that dancers that doesn't know the lyrics are missing something.
Eduardo
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen P Brown [SMTP:Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 12:07 PM
> To: TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
>
> A female friend relayed the following story to me several years ago.
>
> She was dancing with an Argentine. Midway through a tango, he said,
> "This song is about my life. I cannot dance. The words depress me."
>
> At least in this one case, it would have been an advantage not to
> understand the lyrics.
>
> I have also heard some people express a preference for dancing to
> instrumental tangos because they find the lyrics sad or depressing.
>
> --Steve de Tejas
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV @MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:33:23 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Eduardo Fernandez wrote:
>Stephen
...
>I think that dancers that doesn't know the lyrics are missing something.
As Eduardo has addressed his comments to me, I will respond that I agree
with him. In my previous comments, I was not speaking for myself.
Rather, I was offering an explanation for why some people might prefer not
to understand the words. My original comments follow.
--Steve de Tejas
>>
>> A female friend relayed the following story to me several years ago.
>>
>> She was dancing with an Argentine. Midway through a tango, he said,
>> "This song is about my life. I cannot dance. The words depress me."
>>
>> At least in this one case, it would have been an advantage not to
>> understand the lyrics.
>>
>> I have also heard some people express a preference for dancing to
>> instrumental tangos because they find the lyrics sad or depressing.
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:13:04 -0500
From: Lynn Underwood <monaloca @EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Advantage of not understanding Castilian
Kate asked:
> For those who don't understand Spanish or who don't understand Rioplatense
> Spanish, how much do you think you're missing, if you think you're missing
> anything at all? Are there others who think it's an advantage not to
> really understand the words?
It takes me time and concentration to get to the point where I can
understand most of the lyrics of a tango. That generally adds to my
enjoyment, even when the result is very different from what I had assumed
from the music. A good example is "A la Luz del Candil", where what happens
"By Candlelight" is not a lovers' farewell but a gory murder!
But since Spanish is, for me, very much a foreign language, my comprehension
is not enriched -- or burdened -- by a lifetime of associations. As a
result, lyrics in Spanish slip right past the filters that impose strict
standards on English lyrics. One of my favorite tangos is "Nostalgias".
However, in a version played on RadioTango the singer suddenly bursts into
English. When that happens I can't hit the mute button fast enough.
Lynn Underwood
NYC
monoloco @usa.net
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:31:24 -0800
From: diane m tober <DTOBER @PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Tango in Paris?
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I'm going to Paris in June. Anyone know of some good milongas?
Thanks,
Diane
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I'm going to Paris in June. =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Diane</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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End of TANGO-L Digest - 24 Feb 2000 to 25 Feb 2000 (#2000-53)
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