The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 22 Feb 2000
to 23 Feb 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 03:00:19 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 22 Feb 2000 to 23 Feb 2000 (#2000-51)
There are 9 messages totalling 353 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. New CD by Sexteto Mayor
2. EU-W: Tangofolie - Stage et Bal le 26 fevrier 2000
3. email for Fabian Salas
4. Beautiful dancers vs "pretty face" (should be Helsinki)
5. Helsinki
6. ugly/beautiful people
7. Naranjo en flor - Flowering orange tree
8. Beautiful but poor dacer.
9. '' Charlemos '' Analysis of translation and lyrics.
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:53:33 -0600
From: Stephen P Brown <Stephen.P.Brown @DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: New CD by Sexteto Mayor
To Tango-A, Janis Kenyon <jantango @FEEDBACK.NET.AR> wrote:
>Sexteto Mayor has just released a new CD entitled Tangos para Bailar.
>The article in Clarin (11 feb) says they will be performing live in
>March in El Cervantes, but the date is not mentioned.
It will be interesting to hear this new CD. The title suggests that
Sexteto Mayor may recognize that the growth in the social form of tango
creates a market for tango music suitable for social dancing. Their
previous CDs principally contained concert music or music for stage
dancing.
--Steve de Tejas
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:08:26 +0100
From: Marie-Lorraine Bontron <mlb @DMTSUN2.EPFL.CH>
Subject: EU-W: Tangofolie - Stage et Bal le 26 fevrier 2000
Bonjour a tous,
L'association Tangofolie organise le samedi 26 fevrier 2000
- un stage avec Alberto Colombo (Milan)
- un bal anime par le trio Carrasco "H"
Pour plus d'infos, veuillez consulter notre site www.tangofolie.ch
ou lire le mail ci-dessous.
Saludos, y hasta pronto ...
Marie-Lorraine
Samedi 26 f=E9vrier 2000=20
Lieu: LA PASSERELLE =20
Av. d'Apples 50, (sous la gare)
Lausanne
=
=20
Inscription: info @tangofolie.ch =
=20
Stage avec Alberto Colombo (Milan)=20
Alberto est un excellent pedagogue, adepte du "tango nuevo". Lors d'un long=
=20
sejour a Buenos Aires, il a ete invite a participer au groupe de recherche =
sur=20
le tango, reuni autour de Gustavo Naveira et Fabian Salas. Fluidite, aisanc=
e,
espace, sont des mots qui caracterisent sa danse.=20
12h00 - 14h00 Tango I (intermediaire)
14h15 - 16h15 Tango III (avance)
16h45 - 18h45 Tango II (moyen)
Bal anime par le trio Carrasco " H "=20
Juan Carlos Carrasco (Piano)=20
Hugo Diaz (Guitare)=20
Victor Hugo (Bandoneon)=20
20h00 Cours d'initiation au tango (gratuit)=20
21h00 Debut du bal=20
=20
Prix membre Tangofolie=20
Cours : 35 FS, Bal : 20FS=20
Prix non membre=20
Cours : 50 FS, Bal : 25 FS, cours + bal : 70FS=20
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:14:10 -0800
From: Jon McKinley <mckinley @CTS.COM>
Subject: Re: email for Fabian Salas
Fabian has a phone number listing of 5 411 4300 1937. The source of the
listing is:
http://www.abctango.com.ar/homesp.htm
I hope this information is helpful.
jon
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:09:01 EST
From: Erik Grandmass <MassettiE @AOL.COM>
Subject: Beautiful dancers vs "pretty face" (should be Helsinki)
Michael:
>Please, there are no ugly ladies.
I am glad that wherever you live all the ladies are beautiful dancers, and
there are
no ugly dancers. Of course I was referring to dancing ability, and not at
all to a
different concept of beauty, that can be expressed better as "pretty" lady or
"not so pretty".
Maybe you misunderstood me.
Julie:
>In the milonga in Argentina, there is no question of ugly or handsome men.
>The ONLY thing that matters if they can dance.
Same as above, with the addittion that last time I went to Buenos Aires I
boarded
a plane going towards the South Pole, and ended up in a milonga, at "Salon
Argentina" where there were plenty of "pretty ladies" that were also "ugly
dancers",
they were dancing anyway.
This time I will board a plane directed towards Helsinki, that is near the
North Pole, I
will really appreciate any information you could give me on this "ladies'
night" I have been
told about, instead of a discussion on the concept of "beauty in dance vs
pretty in
face".
Gutten tangos,
Erik Grandmass
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:20:43 EST
From: Enrique BigMass <Enricone @AOL.COM>
Subject: Helsinki
Erik:
>This time I will board a plane directed towards Helsinki, that is near the
>North Pole, I will really appreciate any information you could give me on
this
>"ladies' night"
Erik,
a friend of mine from Helsinki gave me the following:
Wanha Maestro, in Fredrickingatu 527, is the place where they have the
"ladies' night", the night when the ladies do the invitations. He could not
tell me if they play argentine tango or not.
The night is on Wednesday, apparently they go "standard way" all the other
nights.
Saludos,
Enrique BigMass
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:31:08 -0500
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: ugly/beautiful people
Original Message -----
From: Julie Taylor <jtaylor @RICE.EDU>
> In the milonga in Argentina, there is no question of ugly or handsome men.
> The ONLY thing that matters if they can dance. Therefore the handsome and
> beautiful, if that is all they have to offer, are Ignored.
I have not been to Argentina, so I'm sure if this is wrong someone will
straighten me out, BUT I have heard the opposite - that beautiful YOUNG
women always get invited to dance, regardless of tango skill, in the
milongas of BA. Since this is also how the world is in many other respects,
I don't think we can say we are shocked (shocked!) to learn this......
many happy tangos to ALL dancers,
Melinda
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:42:21 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Naranjo en flor - Flowering orange tree
Lyrics by Homero Exposito (1918-1987)
Era mas blanda que el agua, She was softer than water,
que el agua blanda, than soft water,
era mas frresca que el rio, she was fresher than the river,
naranjo en floor... flowering orange tree...
Y en esa calle the estio, In that summer street,
calle perdida, lost street,
dejo un pedazo de vida she left a piece of life
y se marcho... and left...
Primero hay que saber sufrir, First one has to know suffering,
despues amar, despues partir then how to love, then how to depart,
y al fin andar sin pensamiento... at the end walk thoughtless roads...
Perfume de naranjo en flor, Perfume of flowering orange tree,
promesas vanas de un amor useless promisses of love
que se escaparon en el viento... that escaped in the wind...
Despues, que importa el despues? Afterwards, does it count?
Toda mi vida es el ayer All my life is a yesterday
que me detiene en el pasado, that detains me in my past,
eterna y vieja juventud eternal, ancient youth
que me ha dejado acobardado that has left me intimidated
como un pajaro sin luz. like a bird without light.
Que le habran hecho mis manos? What did my hands do to her?
Que le habran hecho What must they have done
para dejarme en el pecho to leave in my chest
tanto dolor? so much pain?
Dolor de vieja arboleda, Pain of an old grove,
cancion de esquina song in a street corner
con un pedazo de vida, with a piece of life,
naranjo en flor... Flowering orange tree...
A lost love. Intense love that existed in other time, in another place.
Love of youth, when senses are more awake, when its loss leave
permanent, very deep scars.
Love that strikes with intensity, in a transient way; like the perfume
of flowering orange trees in the spring.
One soon learns that love, separation, suffering, living in the past,
remorse for what went wrong, walking thoughtless roads
is part of the same experience of life.
Life where there is room for only one, unique love.
Other time, other place, other people...
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:54:44 -0500
From: Sergio Suppa <sersupa @INFOVIA.COM.AR>
Subject: Beautiful but poor dacer.
Melinda wrote:
"BUT I have heard the opposite - that beautiful YOUNG
women always get invited to dance, regardless of tango skill, in the
milongas of BA. Since this is also how the world is in many other respects,
I don't think we can say we are shocked (shocked!) to learn this......"
Melinda the most important things to get invited to dance in Argentina is
to be a good dancer, to dance with passion and musicality. If on top of all
those things you are also beautiful, then you have everything!
Beautiful ladies that are poor dancers get invited to dance too, once!
Some of the most beautiful tango experiences are with good, old milongueras.
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:29:38 -0800
From: Ruddy Zelaya <ruddy.zelaya @ENG.SUN.COM>
Subject: Re: '' Charlemos '' Analysis of translation and lyrics.
Hola muchachos,
As you all know, one of the toughest challenges in translation is that
while one can be technically accurate, the resulting translation/interpreta=
tion
may be off the mark due to cultural or linguistic reasons.
The last line of this tango is a perfect example of this:
>>soy ciego... perdoneme... I am blind...Forgive me... (Sergio's tran=
s.)
>>soy ciego... perdoneme... Forgive me... I am blind... (Frank's tran=
s.)
Leaves open the question of whether the speaker was physically
blind or figuratively blind (as in "I was blinded by her beauty").
Frank's analysis states that:
>>''Charlemos'' deals with the terrible isolation of a man, due to his
>> blindness.
I contend that there is no evidence of that. In fact, two lines in the tan=
go
>>No cuelgue... la tarde es triste. Don't hang up... the afternoon is gloom=
y.
and
>>So=F1emos en la gris tarde que llueve Let's dream, in the gray rainy afte=
rnoon
make visual references that indicate that the speaker may have his sight.
I interpret 'soy ciego... perdoneme' as an admittance the speaker
makes to himself and the person on the phone of the futility of
pretending to be someone else (as in 'What am I saying... forgive me')
rather than a confession of being physically unable to see.
In fact, with a little imagination (and a lot of speculating moxie ;-)
one can make the point that when the speaker says:
>>Hablemos de un amor... Let's talk about an affair...
>>Seremos ella y el We'll be her and him
>>Y con su voz and with your voice
>>Mi angustia cruel My cruel anguish
>>sera mas leve will be milder
he is referring to Renee and her new lover and the anguish and sadness
that the spurned lover is feeling on this gray rainy afternoon. The voice
of the lady on the phone brings him solace but he realizes that it
will not change the fact that she is not Renee and he is not her
new lover.
The lines
>>Que dice? Tratar de vernos? What are you saying? Try to see each other?
>>No puedo.. no puedo verla. I can't... I can't see you...
>>Sigamos con la ilusion... Let's continue the illusion
seem to confirm that were the man and the lady on the phone
to meet in person the illusion or pretense that she is Renee
would vanish.
I consider this interpretation more thematically consistent
with the tango tradition of the dejected lover singing about
the woman who left him for another man. No?
Saludos,
---
ruddy
End of TANGO-L Digest - 22 Feb 2000 to 23 Feb 2000 (#2000-51)
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