The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 23 Apr 2000
to 24 Apr 2000
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 03:00:04 -0400
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 23 Apr 2000 to 24 Apr 2000 (#2000-111)
There are 4 messages totalling 237 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. A TANGO EXPERIENCE IN USA
2. Watering seeds
3. Mujeres bailando Girls dancing
4. TRYING TO LOCATE
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Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 13:08:15 EEST
From: Eva V <e_varon_m @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: A TANGO EXPERIENCE IN USA
The most un forgettable dance experience for me was in Pittsburgh. Last year
I was there and met a few tanguero/as very lovely people I must say.
The night before I left Pitt, I and a Tanguero of Pitt, we went to Mount
Washington and there he brought his walkman arranged it just after we ate a
beaftiful friday night dinner, we danced a beautiful Tango up the hill.
It was amazing....
And I must admit that I loved avery single moment of my Tango experience I
had both in Pitt and NYC. I still miss it.
Even now when I feel a little upset or else, I just try to visualize the
tango moments and the ambiance I feel free to dance with anybody in my
homeplace.
Eva
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Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 11:41:30 +0200
From: Yvonne Meissner <tango.yvonne @WXS.NL>
Subject: Re: Watering seeds
Thanks to Robinne for the intersting contribution with its sharp analysis of
your national situation. Actually it is interesting to keep in mind that in
historic times up to 1987 in Argentina there was (alsmost) no academic
"class" teaching. Whatever nowadays is a school there has emerged more or
less later after this year. Tango had been learnt by all great maestros of
the generation of 57+ (which I count to the "authentic milongueros that at
least have witnessed the last years of tango in the fifties and sixties) by
just start looking for months and in some cases by try things with their
friends. Still, even now that there is a big many of schools around,
newcomers in BsAs do tend to learn by looking to a much wider extent then
in f.e. Europe. When feeling mature after watching from their chairs in the
milonga for months they start to "walk" the dance carefully in the social
environment of the salon. With the years they climb the ladder and get
respected members of this social organism.
Why do I talk about this? As I am a teacher myself for 7 years, I discoverd
that the most important thing after having found the right teacher is
actually practicing the dance with a big bunch of others. In practice this
comes down to the empiric statement of mine that: who puts his tango into
practice more and with more, different and preferably always new partners,
does learn a lot quicker then the ones attending to every workshop
available. And: who learns this way maybe after 1-2 years of regular lessons
with their teacher will develop their own stile. And actually this for me is
one of the most important items and especially while teaching (besides
dancing socially to and in the music).
As a conclusion to my opinion/experience organizing events like let's say
tango gatherings or sessions with the charakter of a never ending party,
attended by a big variety of people will contribute to lifting the level.
This is not a thought but an experience I made while teaching throughout
Europe. Who travels and has made many diferent experiences of leading and
following plus attending oftenly to salons can learn quicker and to a more
personalized way then the ones that define tango with copying. Meanwhile I
do see that the European (and maybe Northern American) way will never be the
same as the one of the Southern Americans, still leaving a lot of
responsability of guiding to the local teachers, while inter-changing and
cross-fertilization with dancers from other towns remains an extremely
important ingredient in the development of the tango of your students.
I might not have been very clear in my English and please do excuse my
pidgin English, but to those occasions of the never ending party in f.e. El
Corte in Nijmegen there is a groep of people attending to the lessons and an
even wider international group just visits regularly to interchange dance
and ideas. This is the charm of the event. Nothing needs to be followed but
dinner and breakfast emerge spontanously. But please address to Eric
personally, who might give you preciser information.
Yvonne
Original Message -----
From: "Robinne Gray" <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 10:47 PM
Subject: Watering seeds
> Matej wrote:
> >It is easy to forget that swing caught the mainstream and that scales are
> >completely different btw swing and tango....>swing is part of this
> country's culture, while Argentine tango isn't. >... I think if doing
> tango one should be prepared to settle for a lesser scale
> >than swing
>
> Precisely! That's partly what I meant by "maturing," i.e. the overall
> size of the tango-dancing community. It's possible that tango will never
> be as big as swing in the U.S. because of cultural factors (unless the Gap
> decides to feature tango in its commercials, which is when the big swing
> wave *really* took off) but it does seems to be growing at a modest rate.
>
> There are two reasons the Exchange phenomenon is appealing to me. The
> first is that Exchanges are pointedly NOT based around workshops or
> classes. Sure, classes and instructors are important, but I'd argue (as
> others have) that maximum benefit is achieved through regular study with a
> skilled teacher. Some workshops are good, but when I think back on all
> those I have taken over the years, I find that easily over half of them
> were disappointing for one reason or another. Sometimes because of
> instructor behavior, sometimes class material, or both. Remember all the
> complaints about Pablo Veron starting classes late or not showing up at
> all? And how seldom women get useful instruction, from Veron or others?
>
> Recently I went to a workshop taught by extremely talented dancers,
whom
> I am fond of. I went primarily to say hello and show my support for the
> teachers and organizers. The class started 40 minutes late, which I found
> annoying and disrespectful to the roomful of eager students who had showed
> up. Class was taught to the lowest common denominator, and those of us
who
> could execute the patterns got no correction because the teachers
naturally
> paid attention to those who could not get though the patterns at all.
>
> My point is not to fault the teachers for helping students who were
> obviously struggling. I have taught enough to know that when the skill
> level of students varies widely, which it almost always does in growing
> communities, the teachers are caught in a dilemma. My point is that, from
> the perspective of a participant, it might on occasion be better to do
away
> with the instruction altogether and just have fun dancing. What I
remember
> from attending 1997 Columbus Tango Week is not steps, or anything at all
> having to do with lessons. I remember how great it was to meet and dance
> with people from other cities, many of whom I still see here and there.
>
> The second reason Exchanges appeal to me is the spirit which drives
them.
> Tango mega-events by single promoters and star-studded lineups increase
> the Ego Factor astronomically, often exacerbating the worst of what the
> tango world has to offer. Promoters compete with and fight amongst each
> other (as all listeros have been made privy to). There is tension between
> organizers and instructors over money and scheduling. Organizers can
lapse
> into promotional hubris, overextending themselves financially, advertising
> cheesily, or promising a dance utopia that may be difficult to achieve.
> Conflicted teachers are caught between the need/desire to make money and
> concern about being exploited, causing them to 'act out' in unflattering
> ways, such as being late ("promoters don't own me; I'll do as I please")
> and generally acting like primadonnas (e.g. exhibiting barely-concealed
> scorn for students, or playing the nationality card--Argentina is superior
> to Europe is superior to the USA, and the rest of the world doesn't even
> matter). Instructors greet and kiss-kiss, then rip each other to shreds
> behind the scenes. If one is sociable with particular teachers, one is
> expected to side with them against their rivals.
>
> Exchanges, in refreshing contrast, are volunteer-based and an operation
> of that scale can only succeed if people work together and try to create a
> good experience for everybody. They are one appealing alternative to the
> above scenario, allowing dancers to "vote with their feet" and Just Say No
> to advancing all the disappointment, posturing and mud-slinging. An
> exchange is like organizing a big party with your friends, while defining
> "friends" as an ever-expanding circle of inclusion. This is another kind
> of "maturity" I had in mind when I wrote previously.
>
> And exchange weekends are less expensive to organize and attend. A few
> weeks back there was a discussion about Americans and the Japanese making
> tango more expensive for everybody else. There may be some truth to that,
> but please be aware that there are plenty of us in the U.S. who have
> limited resources and must choose (often wrenchingly) which events to
> attend. Yvonne reminds us that in Europe there have been large events for
> years (my impression was that those too were instruction-based; maybe not)
> but regular transatlantic flights aren't an option for a lot of us over
> here. So my thought is to plant a seed that the North American tango
> community could adapt the "exchange" concept.
>
> Matej wrote:
> >work hard to expose it in a way we feel it, and maybe some day
> >people will be ready...
>
> Yes.
>
>
> --Robinne
> Ithaca, NY
>
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:18:16 +0200
From: JAM <amarinas @RAN.ES>
Subject: Mujeres bailando Girls dancing
Hi. I'm the webmaster of El Tango, Madrid (http://www.artplus.es/tango)
and I'm preparing at the moment an on-line exhibition about women
dancing togheter since 1900' to 1990'. If anyone can contribute sending
me images with this subjet, it will be very welcome.
My special thanks to Floyd Baker for his help
Hola, soy el administrador de las p=E1ginas de El Tango, Madrid
(http://www.artplus.es/tango) y estoy preparando una exposici=F3n on-line
sobre el tema "mujeres bailando" de 1900 a 1990. Si alguien dispone de
im=E1genes de este tipo y desea colaborar en la exposici=F3n, ser=E1n muy
bienvenidas.
J. Alberto Marinas
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:58:50 -0300
From: Vittoria Natale <lamorocha @HOME.COM>
Subject: TRYING TO LOCATE
I am sending this e-mail for Carina Losano. She is trying to locate two
people. Manfred Rist from Germany and Maria Valtraud from Switzerland.
If anyone knows where they are please let me know how to contact them.
Carina's e-mail address is
Carina Losano carinalosano @yahoo.com
Thank You
Vittoria
End of TANGO-L Digest - 23 Apr 2000 to 24 Apr 2000 (#2000-111)
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