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Digest from 11 Sep 1999
to 12 Sep 1999
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 11 Sep 1999 to 12 Sep 1999 (#1999-3)
There are 2 messages totalling 190 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. RE. TERMINOLOGY
2. Giles, Vivillos, versos and a ? about Hugo Diaz
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:00:52 -0700
From: AlbertoPaz <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: RE. TERMINOLOGY
>From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
>THESE ARE typical examples of what I was referring as TERMINOLOGY ANARCHY.
>I WROTE:
>SOMEBODY WROTE:(1)
>SOMEBODY ELSE WROTE:
>MANUEL WROTE:
>THE DEFINITION USED ON (1) - is generally called - DIBUJO OR
>DRAWING -or-LAPICITO - LITTLE PENCIL.
>At this point one has to ask how do I know that this is the correct name.
>I learnt those names from discussions with many milongueros, but mostly from
>NITO AND FROM OSVALDO ZOTTO. NITO GARCIA has been in tango for many decades
>and OSVALDO
>learnt from great teachers like TODARO.
>Are these the only names? probably no, but they are generally accepted.
Given the well known propensity to boast and give themselves more credit
than they deserve, the great majority of "major figures" tend to come up not
only with names for steps but also with an attached copyright. ;-)
Mayoral for example used to tell people in San Francisco that he invented
the "sandwich" and everybody else copied it.
Having studied, befriended, annointed, etc., by dead people is another
version of the argentine "verso," which is the correct terminology for bxllsxit.
Facundo once said that he got tired of hearing Osvaldo Zotto claims about
Todaro that one day he took him to the cemetery to pay respect to the man
who had only 15 people come to his funeral.
Pepito Avellaneda's friends and disciples have multiplied in numbers after
his death. ;-)
Lampazo passed away a few months ago. Soon we'll hear about his disciples
and all the things he said to somebody, etc., etc.
On a recent announcement, Miguel Angel Pla's curriculum indicates that he is
currently teaching at the National Academy of Tango with Elvira Virulazo.
Elvira passed away about three months ago.
The latest "verso," , is the claim of having taught tango to Madonna.
First Madonna does not dance tango. She received instruction for her movie
from Danel and Maria (if her movie would have been called 'Joan D'Arc' her
training would have been probably with the Los Angeles Fire Department Chief)
Second, there has been a notorious list of "teachers of Madonna" who
recently have been exposed to great embarrassment in Buenos Aires by Nelida
Rouchetto, a well known jornalist.
On another post yesterday, somebody in D.C. is adding the 'Madonna trailer'
to Nestor Ray's curriculum.
Nestor and Patricia just spent ten days with us at home and we had lots of
chats about his involvement with the Hollywood celebrities (you'll read
about Duvall's story soon on El Firulete) but he never claimed to have
taught Madonna how to dance.
What's the point?
The point is that whoever is hosting Nestor in D.C. is lying to their
people, pinning false credits on a professional who does not need them, and
showing a lack of respect for the public they expect to attract because of
those false claims. This is "verso" the American way.
The other point is that there must be enough "giles" because the "vivillos"
continue to laugh all the way to the grocery store.
Mientras tanto el mundo sigue andando. :-)
Tangazos,
Alberto
Glossary:
Verso: commentary, praise, promise, claim, etc. which are esentially false.
Giles: Fools
Vivillo: Clever, expert in the art of deceiving
Visit the Argentine Tango Open Forum at,
http://www.egroups.com/group/argentine-tango/
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:54:14 -0700
From: Manuel Patino <white95r @HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Giles, Vivillos, versos and a ? about Hugo Diaz
Original Message -----
From: AlbertoPaz <tangoman @HOOKED.NET>
Subject: RE. TERMINOLOGY
> Given the well known propensity to boast and give
themselves more credit
> than they deserve, the great majority of "major figures"
tend to come up not
> only with names for steps but also with an attached
copyright. ;-)
This is probably true, there is plenty of evidence to
support it. Ithink however that the topic was more about
which terms meant what. Perhaps Zotto just made up the term:
Media luna to describe the figures he taught in his video.
OTOH, maybe he just repeated what he had heard. I merely
repeated what I heard ;-)
> Having studied, befriended, annointed, etc., by dead
people is another
> version of the argentine "verso," which is the correct
terminology for bxllsxit.
snip
> Pepito Avellaneda's friends and disciples have multiplied
in numbers after
> his death. ;-)
I'm happy that my friendships are with live tango
personalities. I did however take some workshops where
Pepito and Susuki taught. Lamentably I was unable to take
advantage of his talent as I was rather overwhelmed by all
the teaching I received by so many other (live) teachers.
> The latest "verso," , is the claim of having taught tango
to Madonna.
snip
> Second, there has been a notorious list of "teachers of
Madonna" who
> recently have been exposed to great embarrassment in
Buenos Aires by Nelida
> Rouchetto, a well known jornalist.
Yes, apparently there were as many teaching Madonna as there
are Argentines teaching tango ;-)
> What's the point?
> The point is that whoever is hosting Nestor in D.C. is
lying to their
> people, pinning false credits on a professional who does
not need them, and
> showing a lack of respect for the public they expect to
attract because of
> those false claims. This is "verso" the American way.
I wonder where this person got their idea and why he chose
to express it in public. I seems that everybody thinks that
if one did not teach Madonna, one is not worthy of teaching
the average Joe & Jane.
> The other point is that there must be enough "giles"
because the "vivillos"
> continue to laugh all the way to the grocery store.
I wonder myself some times about just how lucrative and big
this tango business really is. I think that many of the
travelling, visiting teachers from Argentina do make
considerable money from their efforts. OTOH, some organizers
do not fare so well. I've spoken with some who told that
they had to subsidize the workshops out of their own pocket.
I'm sure that there are some who earn good money from this
but I do wonder who the "giles" and "vivillos" really are.
The "verso" is impossible to separate from facts unless one
has first hand experience or unimpeachably honest sources of
information. Perhaps it is better to take *all* claims with
a large dose of salt and consider them myths until proven
otherwise.
Happy tango dancing to all,
Manuel
P.S. A friend as asked me about a CD by Hugo Diaz, the
harmonica player, called "Hugo Diaz en Buenos Aires". She
would love to obtain this item and would appreciate any
help to this end. Perhaps this is another Tango "verso" a so
totally mythical. Regardless, please write me if you know
where this can be found.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 11 Sep 1999 to 12 Sep 1999 (#1999-3)
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