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Digest from 25 Nov 1999
to 26 Nov 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 25 Nov 1999 to 26 Nov 1999 (#1999-74)
There are 5 messages totalling 395 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Teaching Walking (2)
2. All the same
3. Leading the cross (was Teaching Walking)
4. Teaching Walking/Figure and Ground.
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Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 04:45:50 +0000
From: Keith Elshaw <elshaw @INTERLOG.COM>
Subject: Teaching Walking
This is a continuation of the thread "Beginners" that Tim started last
week.
From that thread, several interesting e-mails with questions came to me
privately, from which I gather that perhaps another one from me to the
group on this subject might be OK. Hope so. I admit to a certain "fear
of Tango-L" inculcated in the last three years which caused me to opt
for a brevity which left the bones a bit bare in my last post.
Things recently seem more - what? - open and constructive now in this
chat room than in the past. Time will tell. This is not meant to be a
shot at anybody; just a cheerful observation. I'll still be brief.
A few people have asked me to give more examples of walking patterns.
One teacher sent me her own teaching examples of walking, queried about
others and asked if there are videos which teach walking. (Our exchange
is in my Guest Book: http://www.interlog.com/~elshaw/ttgb.html). One
friend suggested I should have expanded on my "benefits vs. features"
statement with examples.
If walking is such an important part of dancing and teaching the dance,
an assertion which seems generally to be agreed to by knowledgeable
people, a few dozen more words now shouldn't be too objectionable, one
hopes.
First, regarding Features/Benefits:
People are not convinced by features. "All the good Argentine Tango
dancers walk beautifully," is a feature. That goes in one ear and out
the other. As many times as you say it.
"Walking between figures gives you (leaders) time to think of what you
are going to do next ... " is a benefit. Benefits get people's
attention.
"Walking like this (show your students, drawing attention to how you
move WITH the music) is elegant and stylish and helps you get the Tango
feeling ... " are benefits.
"Walking like this creates the opportunity for you to move around the
floor without bumping into other dancers" is a benefit.
"Walking like this (show them) IS actually doing steps, when you realize
it ... " is a benefit to students who want to learn "steps." As well as
to everyone else.
Benefits communicate the why. If they know why, they will get it, I
submit.
Using these these simple statements as selling points to beginners gives
them a solid base from which to grow - if they buy into what you say.
The goal, surely, is to get new students to love and respect walks. Then
they'll have some confidence. (If you do it, they will do it. If you
only do complicated things, they will want to, too). After-all, in this
"simple" mode they can think ahead, really pay attention to how they
move in time with the music and get the feeling. Ultimate Benefit!
They only stick and make you feel satisfied if they get up on the floor
in a Milonga. The people I see who go out to a class every week but
never go to a Milonga don't remember what they learn and don't support
your local scene. You have to dance it socially to get it in your bones.
I break walking down further. I teach the Salida (in three parts) first;
and explain it as the "exit" (salida en espa=F1ol) from every step they
will ever do when they use the middle part - 3, 4, 5. (I show them this
middle part of the Salida in every figure I teach thereafter).
Then I show them a walk figure which goes from the cross (5) into a walk
of (leader going inside, left) 1, 2, 3 then a cross again ("4 here is
the same as 5 in the base step"). Now ... is this expanded Salida a
step, or a walk? And this teaches a fundamental many students never
learn: that the cross is to be LEAD (with the torso) - not done from the
memory of something you learned as a sequence in a "step." (After this,
other walk patterns make sense to them ...they already know how to get
out of them. Same with any figure they will learn. A huge penny drops).
This virtual "confusion" between what is a step and what is walking is,
I think, a healthy thing. By that I mean that a new student who only
learns 5 different kinds of walks in 2 months will probably dance the
pants off a student who only learns maybe 3, or 6, or 15 intricate
"step" sequences. For a long time. Until the other student takes more
expensive workshops from a real teacher and goes back to square one
again. And learns what the Salida really is and a couple of walking
patterns.
In art, one might talk about figure vs. ground. In music and other
areas, the interval. In Tango, it's the walk that supports the figure
and allows the breathing. If you don't breathe, you dance ugly.
You might say I teach walking as a "step." Marketing as teaching; or
vice versa. Meant with great respect.
And it is evident to me that this is the fastest way to get beginners up
and dancing with confidence in a social situation. Of course I teach
other movements and figures in progression. But on a walking base.
I do so because my great first teachers never showed me this and I
stumbled around for a long time frustrated that I couldn't dance fluidly
in a social situation. Woe was me. I've personally felt every insecurity
of the new student. And then some. None of them was introduced to
Argentine Tango under the pressure I was.
It is only from walking that you can clearly show navigation. And
composition. How important are they?
I feel one of my primary tasks is to impart a sense of how to lead and
how to follow - simply - to beginners, right-off-the-bat.
All of the above is my way of communicating/telegraphing many things
like this to beginners. Before they know it.
Well, I'm conscious that I'm getting a little wordy here. We all have a
few walking patterns that we use. It would be interesting to read
examples contributed by good dancers.
Keith Elshaw
ToTANGO!
http://www.interlog.com/~elshaw/ttindex.html
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:07:42 +0100
From: Anders Nordby <anders.nordby @HIT.NO>
Subject: Re: Teaching Walking
Keith Elshaw wrote:
>Then I show them a walk figure which goes from the cross (5) into a walk
>of (leader going inside, left) 1, 2, 3 then a cross again ("4 here is
>the same as 5 in the base step"). Now ... is this expanded Salida a
>step, or a walk? And this teaches a fundamental many students never
>learn: that the cross is to be LEAD (with the torso) - not done from the
>memory of something you learned as a sequence in a "step."=20
I started to dance tango argentino spring 1997, and still consider myself an
"intermediate beginner". I've focused on learning the "basics" since the
beginning, and not really trying to learn so many new "steps" or pattern of
steps. Personally, I think I have benefited from this, in the way that I
feel rather secure in my moves and my leading. And in being able to dance
the woman's "basic" steps as well.
On this background, I find the latest discussion on beginners and basic
learning and teaching especially interesting and useful. Also because the
possibilities of learning tango in a small place in Norway are not so many.
We just don't have that many "good" (in dancing and/or teaching) teachers
available (locally or nationwide).=20
I'll therefore take my chance on asking Keith about the leading of the cross
(la cruz), hoping that I'm not taking the discussion into something very
simple or uninteresting.
I've read that the cross is to be lead like you write (with the torso and/or
shoulders) and not done as a routine, but I've never been taught how to lead
it, or found any description of it. Could you please explain how this is=
done?
Regards, Anders
_________________________________________________________
Anders Nordby=20
Avdelingsingeni=F8r Senior engineer
H=F8gskolen i Telemark Telemark College
IT-tjenesten B=F8 IT services
Hallvard Eikas plass =09
3800 B=F8 N-3800 B=F8, Norway
Tlf: 35 95 25 36 Fax: 35 95 25 01 +47
Anders.Nordby @hit.no http://www-bo.hit.no/~nordby
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:01:14 EST
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: All the same
What I notice about many of the postings has less to do with the bickering
and opinions offered than with the fact that so much dissection goes on. So
many fundamental elements are broken down into such minute pieces. No wonder
new students are confused. The discussion a few weeks back about whether to
step backward or to the side in the salida was a good example. There seems to
be another topic heading in that same direction now.
There is no difference between walking and doing "steps". They are all steps.
But walking is the most fundamental of all. Every step you learn should be
perfected and done with grace and beauty, whether it is the salida or a
molinete or an ocho or in a straight line. Just walk smoothly and gracefully
around the floor and when you can, do a nice smooth figure to give your dance
some interest and character. Listen to the passages in the music. If the
orchestra is playing soft and mellow, dance the same. There is nothing worse
than hearing a beautiful sensual violin solo like the one in Pugliese's
"Tierra Querida" and seeing some clowns whirling around like dervishes doing
ganchos to beat the band. I was observing a couple last night dancing at a
practica here and it was one constant whirl of ganchos and sacadas, every
song, without any regard to the passages in the music. Pugliese, D'Arienzo,
Tanturri - they danced the same to every song. None of them were very good
and after a while pretty boring. One of the real points of this discussion
is that you shouldn't try to do every thing you know every time you dance. In
fact you will be admired much more for your restraint than for your
pyrotechnics. Unless beginners are watching you. (No offense, beginners, it's
just that as your dancing improves so will your perceptions of what good
dancing is.) In fact it is considered bad form by really good dancers to do
too much.
Sometimes I will do a turn and walk backwards a few steps (as long as
there is room on the floor to do it!) and I am always surprised when my
partner loses it and walks very clumsily because she is not accustomed to
walking forward. As if that were not a real step! Students and even advanced
dancers seem to think that walking is some sort of preparatory skill you
learn but you don't really do on the dance floor. The quality of your
movements can never be covered up by intricate steps. Either you move well or
you don't. I can usually tell how good a new partner is within the first two
steps.
As to the question about leading to the cross, all steps are lead. What you
will notice however as you improve is that the leads become more subtle.
Women need to learn step patterns so they will know what to do once they are
led. Although followers should never memorize step patterns I usually tell my
new female students that they should always go to the cross mainly because it
is such a basic element of the dance and that is what they will do 99% of the
time. Besides if you haven't learned it yet you will learn how to lead a
woman to not cross.
There a few ornamental moves and embellishments that a woman can choose to do
on her own but she should be selective and careful about them. I have nearly
fallen a couple of times because my partner felt that my sacada needed a
gancho but since I was doing a straight line pair of walking sacadas she
almost tripped both of us illustrating one of the major hurdles that women
have to overcome - do not anticipate what your partner will do.
In closing please permit me a little sentiment. Just as our beloved tango is
now universal in spite of its Argentine origins I want to extend best wishes
on the one great American holiday -the one that truly ignores race,
ethnicity, country of origin, religion or whatever else distinguishes us and
even includes our native american brothers who originally celebrated with the
pilgrims and taught us all the recipes. So even if you are eating turkey
burritos, halal turkey samosas, turkey and couscous, kosher turkey on rye,
turkey pierogis, turkey borscht, or whatever, Happy Thanksgiving. But don't
forget to dance off the extra pounds at the weekend milonga.
Cheers,
Charles Roques
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:39:52 +0000
From: Keith Elshaw <elshaw @INTERLOG.COM>
Subject: Leading the cross (was Teaching Walking)
Anders Nordby wrote:
>
> I've read that the cross is to be lead like you write (with the torso a=
nd/or
> shoulders) and not done as a routine, but I've never been taught how to=
lead
> it, or found any description of it. Could you please explain how this i=
s done?
Whether you start with a step back or to the side (and let's suppose you =
are
going to keep moving in time as opposed to pausing on 2 - but the same th=
ing
applies when going forward after pausing), on your way to 2 your upper bo=
dy - the
torso - adopts a +slight+ orientation, or opening, to the right. You keep=
this
(no matter which foot you go out from the second position on) through 3 a=
nd 4.
Halfway between 4 and 5 you turn your torso slightly to the left (back t=
o
center) - and this leads the cross on 5.
It's best not to think "shoulders" because if you do, you're likely to br=
ing them
forward. Shoulders must stay back at all times (remember this when leadin=
g
gyros). Don't think arms, either, because then you'll start pushing (ugh!=
) and
lose your posture. I ask students to think of their arms as in a cast - t=
hey
can't move on their own, but only when you twist your torso.
If you keep your arms firm, shoulders back, and move your torso in leadin=
g (which
is what moves your arms), every woman will appreciate dancing with you.
Anyone wanting to learn the fine points of leading with the torso should =
find a
way to have instruction from Hern=E1n Obispo one day. He's a Great Teache=
r (of
leaders +and+ followers).
Best regards,
Keith Elshaw
ToTANGO!
http://www.interlog.com/~elshaw/ttindex.html
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:33:41 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching Walking/Figure and Ground.
Original Message-----
From: Keith Elshaw <elshaw @interlog.com>
Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 10:46 AM
Subject: Teaching Walking
>In art, one might talk about figure vs. ground. In music and other
>areas, the interval. In Tango, it's the walk that supports the figure
>and allows the breathing. If you don't breathe, you dance ugly.
>
I believe figure vs. ground may be a helpful way to look at dancing too.
It may also help answer the question: should one dance "complicated"
steps?
I myself am trying this concept out since past three weeks to find out :
"what is 'agressive' dancing?" which I translated for myself as
"agressive intepretation of music." Most seemed to think I meant
doing a lot all the time (and may be with no regard to the partner).
But, I would like to explain it as being slower than the music at
slow
parts and faster than the music at fast portions(but stepping
on the beats of the music, of course)-- so I have to try it out!
This is as opposed to being at the same level or being a little slower
at fast portions and a little faster at slow portions.
Slower than the music I have tried out, and it seems to work well...
Faster, I am not yet confident I am there-- looks like very small or no
movement at all except shifting of foot/ weight would work but I am
not yet comfortable.
Anyways, if anyone has any opinions on these, I would really appreciate
the comments.
In fact, as important as walking, one should perhaps also teach how to
not
do *anything* but stop and be with the music at slow passages of music.
Not doing anything need not be uninteresting-- the moment I have in
mind is when one rolls a ball up the hill, it goes all the way up,
*stops*
and then rolls down. So, at the very top, although the ball may have
stopped,
it is still full of life and dynamism becasuse there is the
*expectation* of
movement downwards.
In tango this would translate as a hint towards a movement which is
about to happen but has not happend yet(may be the follower being
stopped when her weight is on her toes or an indication of an ocho
but no actual movement of the feet). I have tried this out and I think
it
works quite well...
As for 'complicated steps', one should perhaps not attempt to do
complicated steps until the skill level of the 'ground' itself has
reached
a level where until-now-complicated step seems simple-- an evolutionary
progress. This may be a good alternative to all those who want to be
eternal
beginners-- one is always a beginner towards the next level of tango --
so
need not stop at level 1 to be a beginner.
Well, it is not thanksgiving where I am and so I am off to dance and to
test
the ground and the figures around :-)
Happy thanksgiving to you all out there enjoying the turkey and the
cranberry
sauce ....or whatever else...
rajan.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 25 Nov 1999 to 26 Nov 1999 (#1999-74)
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