The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 3 Nov 1999
to 4 Nov 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:00:05 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 3 Nov 1999 to 4 Nov 1999 (#1999-54)
There are 5 messages totalling 351 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. [Dancing to Astor]
2. My experience in BA
3. Men teaching men/smoothness/piazzola.
4. Copes, anyone?
5. Seeking information on Hotel Castelar in Buenos Aires
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:14:25 PST
From: sharon gates <sharon7301 @NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: [Dancing to Astor]
Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM> wrote:
Perhaps on stage with rehearsed choreography but not about dancing in the=
halls. It's about exploring the tango genre and broadening it creatively =
and I
welcome it but the creativity can be distracting to dance to."
I agree with Charles in regard to "not dancing in the halls". But it does=
not
need to be rehearsed choreography either. Anyone who witnessed Fabian Sal=
as
performing with Lucia Mazer the last night of CITA-99 to the "Tristessa d=
e un
doble A" would agree that it was the most remarkable 7 minutes of
improvisation. It takes talent and courage, and an audience who can
apprectiate an artist taking risks.
Cheers,
Sharon.
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:31:22 -0500
From: David Allen <dsaj @MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: My experience in BA
I would like to share my first experience on Buenos Aires.
A little background. I have been a dancer most of my life. I took up
Argentine tango 17 mos ago. My style of dance has been "close embrace" or
"on the body". I have been blessed with excellent local teachers as well as
traveling teachers.
I spent most of the month of September in BA. It was my first time. My
main objective in going was to study more intensely with Susana Miller with
the intention of improving my basics of tango, ie, presence, walk, posture,
balance, lead. I knew that I would learn steps as a result, however, I
would not have been disappointed if i had not learned any new steps.
My first day in BA I was taken to dance at Italia Unita. I was told all the
best BA dancers go there. I was scared because I did not know if I would be
able to get a milonguera to dance with me and I did not know if I did, would
my dance be good enough to get more dances. To my good fortune one of the
organizers of the milonga, Rubin, was close with Susana, knew I was coming
and got me initial dances. To the praise of my teachers and my many hours
of practice and dance I danced well enough and was able to navigate the
floor well enough to get more dances. Later in the day Susana showed up. I
danced a tanda with her on a very crowded floor. Afterwards more of the
milongueras in attendance gave me dances. As days went by I visited more
milongas such as La Ideal, Pavadita, Nino Bien, Club Gricel, etc. At these
milongas enough milongueras and milongureos that I had danced with and met
were in attendance that I was able to show my dance and get dances with new
milongureas. I discovered that if you were not known in the good milongas
it was tough to get a dance. When you did you had to show you could dance
and navigate the floor well to continue to get dances.
I danced about 7 to 9 hours a day, which included afternoon milongas, night
classes and night milongas. I took lessons mainly from Susana and also from
Puppy, Graciela, Lauren, Rubin and others. I enjoyed every minute and know
that anyone who continues to dance tango needs to experience BA. If I had
not taken any lessons while there, the level of milongurea that I was
prividledged to dance with alone would have improved my dance. I learned
almost as much dancing with some of the best and watching the best as I did
in classes. You do truly refine and solidify on the dance floor.
These are the understandings of tango I gained in BA: 1. They dance for
the pleasure of the dance and the experience that they get from each other.
2. They dance for the most part simply, very few complicated, showy steps.
Even thought they can do the complicated, showy even on a non crowded floor
most still danced simply. Their emphasis, #1 above. 3. The basics are the
most important part of the tango. What matters most is your presence,
posture, balance, lead or follow. The better the basics, the better and
easier the dance, the more you free yourself to hear the music and open
yourself to your partner so that you truly can talk to and listen to each
other through your bodies. 4. A good majority dance the "close embrace"
style because the experience you can have dancing on the body with another
person can not be had in any other style. Yes you can have an incredible
experience dancing "salon" or "open" style and yet the truly delicious,
sensuous, spiritual experience comes from that intimate, open heart, body on
body style. It is in "on the body" that one can have the "out of body"
experience. Once experienced, it is continually looked for in the next
dance. My good friend, Barbara, calls it "Chasing the Ghost". 5. In
conjunction with #'s 1 & 2 above they dance the music not the steps. They
dance the musical phrasing between the beats and are, at the same time,
always on the beat.
I was asked by my fellow dancers in Atlanta to describe what it felt like
dancing with that good, experienced milonguera. My response, "It was like
dancing with an oak tree that gave me her heart and I could move with a
feather". Due to their presence in the dance my lead became very sutle. It
was my hardest adjustment to make once back home, that of making my lead
less sutle again. Yes, I did get spoiled. My dancing definitely got
changed and improved in a deliciously marvelous way. I do dance now for the
pleasure and the experience and I was able to make the transition to dancing
the music and not the steps. Ooooooh, my oh my,
the things I could share.
Wow!!!! The greatest dance in the world. I truly do understand now how my
friend, Christina Johnson, was able to create a masterful "Relationship"
workshop using the Argentine tango as the basis.
Thanks for letting me express my thoughts.
Hooked on tango,
David
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 23:04:24 +0100
From: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @EMC.COM>
Subject: Re: Men teaching men/smoothness/piazzola.
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Original Message-----
From: Cammie Strange <milonguera @dellnet.com>
To: Natarajan Balasundara <rajan @emc.com>
>> If the leading is such that the follower has to be
>> on the edge and be prepared for change in direction
>> and speed all the time, and the adrenaline is rushing,
>> and much attention has to be paid for intricate steps,
>> I would suppose perhaps it is rather an agressive/passionate
>> kind of style.
>
>I don't get the connection here between aggressive and passionate. I
don't
>feel passionate at all when I am having to constantly be on edge and
the
>leading is very aggressive. It almost makes me feel the opposite of
>passionate. Cammie Strange, Colorado.
>>
By agressive, I meant the interepretation of the music.
Not agreesiveness towards the partner. While smoothness is
something to be learnt, I personally do not see the leading
in Tango where the follower falls asleep in the leaders
arms, despite charles Roques interepreting it that way in
his posting, as a good lead.
On the contrary, I feel a good tango lead would be one
that makes the follower lose sleep -- preferably for
a few nights :-)
In tango it possible for the leader and follower to have
a conversation-- and as such the leader interprets the
music whichever (s)he wants to and gives the space for
the follower to respond. In the beginning the question
is: "do you see what I see?" and as soon as the follower
answers, then on to the next question. In the middle the
question is: "let me guess what you see" and then if that
goes well, it just as well the leader can hand over leading
to the follower, and just try to follow her and see if
he is any good in answering her questions as he is in
asking them. So, in such a situation, there is no space
for dozing off for any one. Of course, it will be intense
and some followers will feel as if they are being tested...
others may give advise as to how to dance smoothly/
gently etc...but if all goes well, hopefully both will come out as if
one has felt the contours of the other mind--- which
is what knowing someone passionately should mean.
(although tango marketing people will sell it in a different
bottle-- as a way to feel the contours of the other's body ;-)
To ask different questions, music can not be repetitive
but if one has to dance, it needs to be somewhat
predictable and there has to be a beat, and if one really
wants to push the envelope, there needs to be extremes
of everything at one place or the other. This is where
Piazzola helps. Although he plays it on what looks like
an ancient instrument, it feels as modern as any in the
classical music. Perhaps it is modern-- Kronos quartet
have a CD and may be one day Anne Sophie-Mutter
will record a Piazzola tango for the violin....
And it seems it is possible to lead this way-- Fabian Salas
dancing is a good example as Sharon Gates just
posted. That is how I would want to be able to dance, anyways.
rajan.
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<DIV><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Cammie Strange <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:milonguera @dellnet.com">milonguera @dellnet.com</A>><BR>=
To:=20
Natarajan Balasundara <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:rajan @emc.com">rajan @emc.com</A>><BR><BR>>> If =
the leading=20
is such that the follower has to be<BR>>> on the edge and be =
prepared for change in direction<BR>>> and speed all the time, and =
the=20
adrenaline is rushing,<BR>>> and much attention has to be paid for =
intricate steps,<BR>>> I would suppose perhaps it is rather an=20
agressive/passionate<BR>>> kind of style.<BR>><BR>>I don't =
get the=20
connection here between aggressive and passionate. =
I<BR>don't<BR>>feel=20
passionate at all when I am having to constantly be on edge=20
and<BR>the<BR>>leading is very aggressive. It almost makes me =
feel the=20
opposite of<BR>>passionate. Cammie Strange,=20
Colorado.<BR>>><BR><BR><BR>By agressive, I meant the =
interepretation of=20
the music.<BR>Not agreesiveness towards the partner. While smoothness=20
is<BR>something to be learnt, I personally do not see the =
leading<BR>in=20
Tango where the follower falls asleep in the leaders<BR>arms, despite =
charles=20
Roques interepreting it that way in<BR>his posting, as a good =
lead.<BR><BR>On=20
the contrary, I feel a good tango lead would be one<BR>that makes the =
follower=20
lose sleep -- preferably for<BR>a few nights :-)<BR><BR><BR>In tango it =
possible=20
for the leader and follower to have<BR>a conversation-- and as such the =
leader=20
interprets the<BR>music whichever (s)he wants to and gives the space =
for<BR>the=20
follower to respond. In the beginning the question<BR>is: "do you =
see what=20
I see?" and as soon as the follower<BR>answers, then on to =
the next=20
question. In the middle the<BR>question is: "let me guess what you=20
see" and then if that<BR>goes well, it just as well the leader can =
hand=20
over leading<BR>to the follower, and just try to follow her and see =
if<BR>he is=20
any good in answering her questions as he is in<BR>asking them. So, in =
such a=20
situation, there is no space<BR>for dozing off for any one. Of course, =
it will=20
be intense<BR>and some followers will feel as if they are being=20
tested...<BR>others may give advise as to how to dance =
smoothly/<BR>gently=20
etc...but if all goes well, hopefully both will come out as if<BR>one =
has felt=20
the contours of the other mind--- which<BR>is what knowing someone =
passionately=20
should mean.<BR>(although tango marketing people will sell it in a=20
different<BR>bottle-- as a way to feel the contours of the other's =
body=20
;-)<BR><BR><BR>To ask different questions, music can not be =
repetitive<BR>but if=20
one has to dance, it needs to be somewhat<BR>predictable and there has =
to be a=20
beat, and if one really<BR>wants to push the envelope, there needs to be =
extremes<BR>of everything at one place or the other. This is =
where<BR>Piazzola=20
helps. Although he plays it on what looks like<BR>an ancient =
instrument,=20
it feels as modern as any in the<BR>classical music. Perhaps it is =
modern-- Kronos quartet<BR>have a CD and may be one day Anne=20
Sophie-Mutter<BR>will record a Piazzola tango for the =
violin....<BR><BR>And it=20
seems it is possible to lead this way-- Fabian Salas<BR>dancing is a =
good=20
example as Sharon Gates just<BR>posted. That is how I would want to be =
able to=20
dance, anyways.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>rajan.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:49:50 -0600
From: Steven Lee <tango-1 @JUNO.COM>
Subject: Copes, anyone?
Hello L,
Is there any more info on Copes coming to the States? I've heard rumours
about a Miami Workshop and performance in New York.
Thanks.
Steve
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:45:58 -0800
From: Cammie Strange <milonguera @DELLNET.COM>
Subject: Seeking information on Hotel Castelar in Buenos Aires
I am planning a trip to Bs As in March to attend COSMO TANGO and am trying
to decide on a hotel. I would like some feedback on Hotel Castelar, if
anyone has stayed there. Thanks very much, Cammie Strange, Colorado.
End of TANGO-L Digest - 3 Nov 1999 to 4 Nov 1999 (#1999-54)
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