The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 21 Dec 1999
to 22 Dec 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 03:00:05 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 21 Dec 1999 to 22 Dec 1999 (#1999-98)
There are 9 messages totalling 428 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tango Argentino ticket (NYC) & thoughts
2. Dancing Tango to not tango music (2)
3. tango to ANY music
4. Dancing to no tango music
5. "Tango Argentino"
6. Tango and alien music
7. Tango to other music
8. How to understand the music ...
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:22:35 -0500
From: Robinne Gray <rlg2 @CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Tango Argentino ticket (NYC) & thoughts
Hi gang,
I have in my possession an extra ticket to Tango Argentino at the Gershwin
Theater in NYC, seat D-105, which is the third or fourth row of the
mezzanine. It is transferable to other performances (but you have to call
first to be sure of availability). Paid $37.50; asking $20. E-mail me if
you're interested.
Someone had inquired about the show and the other dancers in it. In the
program only Copes, Nieves, and Veron are listed as "guest artists". I
thought it terribly unfair that Vanina Bilous was not included among these,
as her dancing shone over that of others. Her exquisite skill and artistry
have not been much celebrated here on the list or in any of the newsletters
I've seen, and she doesn't seem to make appearances at milongas, but for my
taste she is one of the strongest female tango dancers around and as
deserving of recognition as stars like Milena who get more press because
they are better promoted and more consistently partnered (and because
they've done the U.S./Europe teaching circuit). Vanina has been my idol for
a year or so, ever since I saw her dance on a blurry bootleg copy of a
promotional video she had done when she was partnering with Roberto. It
was social dancing worthy of the stage, technical perfection with great
musical sensitivity and interpretation.
The show itself was...pleasant, good, but not breathtaking. I wondered if
I had gotten jaded, since Tango Argentino is the 4th big tango production
I've seen (along with TangoX2, Una Noche de Tango, and Forever Tango). The
shows put together by Miguel and Milena were far and away the strongest of
the lot. Luis Bravo's show seemed less concerned with authenticity and the
milonguero tradition but the production values were high and the company
that toured to Montreal included a first-rate orchestra. In comparison to
these, Tango Argentino seemed to lack vision (probably a common phenomenon
with revivals, since they seek to re-create rather than create) and energy.
It felt like a hodgepodge of dancers assembled to dance a series of
pieces. Staging was minimal. There's nothing wrong with simplicity but
performances on a spare stage without context generally work better in a
more intimate venue, I'd say. But then, ALL performing arts work best when
the connection with the audience is more immediate and palpable.
Copes, Nieves and Veron were good, but the show didn't allow them to show
their best. Veron was miscast in the campy '20s ballroom-style number, and
poor Guillermina had to wear those voluminous gold pants. (I think if I
were cast in a show and learned that the costume designer had THAT in store
for me I'd have cried--but maybe when you've been around you get sick of
slinky black dresses.) To get a sense of what Veron can really do, better
to rent The Tango Lesson again. Copes, for me, had far more appeal in
Saura's "Tango" film when he was rehearsing dancers and when he did the
milonga in the studio with the ingenue. Maria Nieves was a pleasure--great
legs and a glow after all these years!--but she and Copes didn't have any
combustion and didn't even bow together. Onstage, the Mayorals were the
only couple that exhibited any chemistry and communication and who even
seemed to be enjoying themselves. And then there was the guy who grunted
and jerked Ines around ferociously. This has totally weirded out any woman
I've spoken to who has seen the show--they found it creepy and disturbing.
The show is worth seeing, but you may feel better if you don't spend top
dollar and don't have high expectations.
--Robinne
Ithaca, NY
(Still seen at milongas, occasionally)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:56:40 +0100
From: Laimute <laimute @LINTEL.LT>
Subject: Dancing Tango to not tango music
Hello, Tango lovers,
What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango music?
We with my boyfriend are taking Tango lessons from Argentinean,
but in our country there are not public places to dance Tango.
However we love tango movements, it's spirit
and the way how we feel each other in this.
So, when we hear something like blues, we dance tango.
Don't you think it becomes a parody of tango and a poor taste of us?
Should we wait only for these rare chances, when the tango is on ?
Respectfully,
LAIMA
Lithuania, Europe
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:39:06 -0600
From: kortnee <kortnee @COMPUVISION.NET>
Subject: tango to ANY music
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Hello List.
>What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango music?
>However we love tango movements, it's spirit
>So, when we hear something like blues, we dance tango.
One of the greatest appeals of tango is that it can be danced to ANY =
music. There are not many other dances that this is true of....so, it =
seems to me, that a dance which can be danced to any music, should be =
danced to any music. That is part of the joy and passion and spirit of =
tango! Tango on!
Kortnee :)
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hello List.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>>What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango=20
music?<BR>>However we love tango movements, it's spirit<BR>>So, =
when we=20
hear something like blues, we dance tango.<BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One of the greatest appeals of tango is that it can =
be danced=20
to ANY music. There are not many other dances that this is true =
of....so,=20
it seems to me, that a dance which can be danced to any music, should be =
danced=20
to any music. That is part of the joy and passion and spirit =
of=20
tango! Tango on!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Kortnee :)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:44:13 -0500
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: Dancing to no tango music
>One of the most interesting thing is that tango can be danced to any type
of music.
I think that is possible to dance, using the tango choreography to other
music different from Argentine tango. In some way very frequently it can end
up being a dance with a background music; the dancers preoccupied with there
moves ignore the beat.
The taste for argentine tango music has to be developed, it does not come
spontaneously. Despite the fact that music is a common language, the
feeling that it awakes in people could vary enormously from person to
person. the same way the taste for some drinks has to be developed, wine,
whiskey, rum, could be some examples. So the taste for Argentine Tango music
has to be developed.
This is achieved by listening to it as frequently as possible. When you do
so, it starts to reveal its power to you, it traps you; you start the day
listening to tangos while you brush your teeth, then you listen to it while
you drive, while you walk, when you go out to dance and before you fall
sleep at night. It produces an enormous inner pleasure. Then your dance
becomes something different, you start having "feeling"; perhaps the most
important element of tango dancing. Each one of your tangos become an
entity, a different experience with each partner, with each orchestra. Now
you feel the rich variations of the music as you abandon yourself to the
slow adagios of the violin or you accelerate in giros to the fast music of
the bandoneon. You can believe me, if you do this your experience will be
totally different than if you dance to fox-trots or boleros. Each dance has
its own personality that is highly expressed in its music. It is possible to
dance rumba to cha-cha music or rumba to bolero music but the mood and the
feeling are going to be different. This is highly pronounced in Argentine
tango because here "feeling" acquires another meaning; eventually it becomes
mesmerizing, hypnotizing; this is the explanation for the "tango face". The
tango dancer is highly concentrated in the music, he is very serious, has an
expression of being absent, and experiencing a tremendous pleasure. Not
everyone get to reach the Nirvana. In my opinion this is the right way to
get there. Some people might be traveling the wrong road. they will arrive
someplace else.
May every one have tangos with "feeling".
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:28:59 +0100
From: Jean-Pierre Jacquet <jpjfilms @CYBERCABLE.FR>
Subject: Re: "Tango Argentino"
I saw the NY production of Tango Argentino and thought the singing was
head and shoulders above the dancing (in spite of what of one of the
Tango-L posters said about the garish make-up of the women singers).
Check out a singer named Haydie Alba (some of her CD's are available on
Amazon, Tower, etc...). She is even more thetrica, particularly in her
flawless diction, than Susanna Rinaldi, and everyone of her
interpretation of the most over played tangoes are little gems, like
little mini-plays.
Jean-Pierre Jacquet
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:50:59 EST
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango and alien music
Kortnee wrote;
<<<One of the greatest appeals of tango is that it can be danced to ANY
music. There are not many other dances that this is true of....so, it seems
to me, that a dance which can be danced to any music, should be danced to any
music. That is part of the joy and passion and spirit of tango! Tango
on!>>>
No, one of the greatest appeals is tango is that it has it's own vast
literature of music that evolved to a very sophisticated level that few
popular music forms can boast. That is where the joy and passion and spirit
are as well as in the dance. Why would anyone even want to dance to other
types of music? It is an inextricable part of the feeling of the dance and
culture. You only have to look at "American Tango" or "Ballroom International
Style Tango" to see what will happen if the dance evolves without the music.
Unless of course "Hernando's Hideaway" from the American musical "Showboat"
is your idea of tango or bands with horns and drummers are your idea of a
tango orchestra.
Yes Laima, it is a something of a parody and will ultimately corrupt your
dancing. Respect the purity of the dance and it's music and you will be a
better dancer.
Kortnee's opinions are strictly hers and representative of an extremely small
minority.
Charles Roques
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:26:31 EST
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango @AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango to other music
If any one can remember one year ago today, I wrote a piece about, if we're
stuck hearing all of the same Christmas Carroll's over and over again. The
least we should do is enjoy them and do the tango to them. Make the best of
the situation.
Well, last year it was my turn for Alberto to reem me a new XXXButt, just
like some else got it this year.
Not because of Alberto's letter, but in the past year feel my tango as
matured emencely. I feel a little more respect for the tango, for it's
beauty, and for what it has given me. And believe me the tango has given me
a lot. I now want to give tango something back, respect. This year I have to
agree (but in less harsh words) with Alberto, and my feelings are that I will
only tango to tango music. And when I tango give it 110%.
Tim Pogros (TimmyTango)
Feb 19 will be my 2nd Anniversary Tango Snow Ball. A Semiformal dinner dance
at Belinda's Night Club. Performing that night will be
Daniel Lapadula, Christy Cote', Tioma "El Ruso" Maloratsky, Katrina Zeno,
Jorge Nel, and Mara Carlson
There will be workshops and private lessons galore, Live Tango Music, Great
food, Great People, Great Dancing
Please contact me for information about it
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:22:15 -0500
From: SERGIO <SERGIO @NCINTER.NET>
Subject: How to understand the music ...
Some list members have asked : How do you understand the music to start to
like it and then to be able to dance with feeling?
A very interesting question.
You must listen to the music as frequently as possible.
You have to practice walking to the tango beat. Stepping as you please, but
always on the beat. You walk slowly, stepping on every other or every third
beat, then you syncopate in a little run of three beats, then you step fast
on every beat.
You practice walking with your partner the same way as described above.
Once you know where the beat is; you start walking with your partner trying
"to feel the music"; then begin pausing, waiting for the right moment, the
right beat, to re-start moving. Finally move according to the feeling that
the music evoques in you.
Slow music, violin adagios might require pauses, or stops and will allow
extra time for the ladies to do their embellishments; fast music, bandoneons
"playing a full", might require a fast move or turns, giros, etc.
Some orchestras are easier to feel and dance to : Carlos Disarli, Osvaldo
Fresedo, Miguel Calo.
Others require a deeper understanding of the music : Slow music Osvaldo
Pugliese, faster music Juan D'Arienzo.
I would try to avoid tango music that was written for listening and NOT for
dancing as the changes in speed and mood and the number of variations make
that music difficult to dance to, and to develop the right feeling. Even
when the temptation is big due to the fact that such music could be very
beautiful. I do not wish to give examples in order to avoid controversy but
I would recommend not to dance, at the beginning at least, to music like
Piazzola or Mariano Mores. Stage Tango and exhibitions are a chapter apart.
Non tango music is out of the question, at this time.
I am sure that there are many other ways to achieve the same or similar
results. Other members might provide other interesting alternatives.
In the meantime enjoy your tangos.
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:53:26 -0500
From: Melinda Bates <tangerauna @EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Dancing Tango to not tango music
Dear Laima,
In spite of all the huffing and puffing on this list from tango experts,
there is NOTHING wrong with dancing tango to other kinds of music. The fact
that you want to do this shows how much you are drawn to tango, and how you
wish to express these feelings, regardless of whether the music available is
the
"right" thing.
I have many opportunities to dance tango to tango music, and as others point
out, that is the most fabulous experience of all. When that music starts,
something inside yearns to be dancing in response. It is infinitely more
emotional and exciting than any other dance could be. I congratulate those
who already described this in detail. They are correct; it is a sublime
experience.
However, we also go to many events where the band does not know tango, but
will play for dancing all night. According to the "experts", there is some
sacrilege involved in dancing tango to blues, or jazz, or Cole Porter, or
whatever. Nonsense! With that premise we (and you) would sit glumly on the
sidelines all night, longing for the "perfect" music to allow us to dance.
Or else stay home and pass up opportunities to dance and have a great time.
What a pointless waste. The "experts" need to get a life.
My first year of dancing tango I had a partner who easily led tango to
whatever the music was, and occasionally led tango to no music at all (one
memorable night at the Kennedy Center.....) and it was always a wonderful
experience. No one is suggesting this dancing be described as "Argentine
tango", as, clearly it is not. But dancing tango steps to other dances is
not sacrilege.
Tango was invented by scruffy immigrants waiting outside bordellos for the
"lady" of their choice. I think these men would laugh themselves silly at
the prissy overintellectualizing of these tango "purists".
If your heart moves you to dance tango, that is a wonderful and joyful
thing. Until your circumstances change, and you have opportunities to dance
tango to tango music, don't allow the pontificating, pretentious tango wonks
to argue you out of expressing it any way you can!
many happy tangos to you,
Melinda
Original Message -----
From: Laimute <laimute @LINTEL.LT>
To: <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 6:56 AM
Subject: Dancing Tango to not tango music
> Hello, Tango lovers,
>
> What do you think about dancing Tango to not tango music?
>
> We with my boyfriend are taking Tango lessons from Argentinean,
> but in our country there are not public places to dance Tango.
> However we love tango movements, it's spirit
> and the way how we feel each other in this.
> So, when we hear something like blues, we dance tango.
>
> Don't you think it becomes a parody of tango and a poor taste of us?
> Should we wait only for these rare chances, when the tango is on ?
>
> Respectfully,
> LAIMA
>
>
> Lithuania, Europe
>
End of TANGO-L Digest - 21 Dec 1999 to 22 Dec 1999 (#1999-98)
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