The Tango-L mailing list archive
Digest from 20 Dec 1999
to 21 Dec 1999
Reply-To: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of TANGO-L digests <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:00:18 -0500
Sender: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango <TANGO-L @MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
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Subject: TANGO-L Digest - 20 Dec 1999 to 21 Dec 1999 (#1999-97)
There are 3 messages totalling 187 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. SLANDER OF THE NAME JUAN CARLOS COPES
2. "Tango Argentino"
3. MINGO PUGLIESE'S FAMOUS QUOTE
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:55:10 EST
From: Randy Pittman <MailAlive @AOL.COM>
Subject: SLANDER OF THE NAME JUAN CARLOS COPES
Dear Milongueros y Tangueras:
Why? Why did I open this can of worms? Disrespect! Even if I had not meet
and worked with Mr. Copes at the USTC Tango Fantasy on Miami Beach in 1999, I
still would have responded to the disrespect, of one of the pioneers of the
Argentine Tango. Being one of the recent organizers that brought Mr. Copes
to America, I felt it was my duty.
>Al<Tangostud @mostwanted.com> wrote:
>my amazement of the fact that he never changed his routines.
I only have 27 years experience dancing professionally. I run a weekly
Milonga and Ballroom event with 50 to 200 in attendance with weekly dance
shows. I'm a certified Arthur Murray and Fred Astaire instructor and if
there was certifications in Country & Western, Swing, Disco and Tango, I
would be certified in all of the dances.
I have over 30 choreographed routines. I guarantee, that because of the
dramatic entrances and endings it could be said that I never change my
routines. You would have to video and study closely to tell which ones have,
and have not had changed. I only change choreographies when I review them,
and feel that I can improve the show.
Don't look too closely at the Forever Tango, Tango X-2 or the Tango Pasion
shows, you will find out they rarely change their choreographies. Even when
the dancers are changed, sometimes they use the same choreography with
different dancers.
>I am not criticizing an "elder"person, but discussing a famous tango
person's
>Strengths and weaknesses. He is not perfect! Nobody is. So shoot me for
saying
>That! Or be indignant about my e-mail - it was my wife's idea - love you
baby.
So, you are one of those henpeck wimps that do whatever your wife tells you.
OK! ! !
Nobody has made a God out of Mr. Copes, and nobody is perfect, but most of
the Tango world have respect for its founders, you have none.
>Not only I've seen Copes perform in several different shows, I even attended
several
>of his classes. He is just as elegant of a dancer in person as he is on
stage.
>Nobody is denying that he is a hardworking, talented professional dancer who
>contributed hugely to the success of the Tango around the world. I merely
expressed
That might have been your own words, but is it the truth? Have you really
been in several of his classes?
You've already proved yourself an unqualified nonentity of Tango. There is
no need to address your unqualified opinion on Mr. Copes' classes. I find
many novices (like yourself) that don't belong in advanced classes, usually
complain about the material and blame the teacher. Try going back to the
beginners classes.
Now to deal with your slander of the name of Juan Carlos Copes!
>Randy writes: "In the final show that he performed with his daughter Johana,
his
>presentation was strong and commanding."
>That's not what I heard from a couple of students of your Congress, Randy.
What did
>Coped do before his dance? Did he by any chance give a 30 minute drunken
speech
>that nobody could understand, and then had Johana literally drag him through
their
>routine since he could not remember any steps? How "commanding" really was
it?
Fortunately for you, you are nameless, faceless, and an unknown Idiot. I
don't know the law on the Internet, but I believe you have come very close to
slander. How stupid you have made yourself to this complete list. The Copes
speech is on the USTC video. The complete 4 minutes and 18 seconds, covered
his praise of the new young upcoming Tangueros. It did come not close to any
30 minute drunken speech. Your drunken comments are slanderous towards Juan
Carlos Copes. Your friends are Liars! ! ! The video and the almost 600
people at the final show are witnesses, that you and your friends are
complete total LIARS.
Again, have you no thoughts of your own to bring to this forum. Is all of
you future posting going to be someone else's slander and lies against Tango.
Fortunately, I've no more time for you. I have real things that, I am in
the process of accomplishing for the world of dance.
To the rest of the Tango-L group, I know in the future I don't even need to
open anything from TangoDUD. He has nothing of any value to say. I've
received several personal e-mails from other list members that have e-mailed
him directly. If trashing the founders of Tango is the only way he can get
people to e-mail TangoDUD, then he found his niche in life. I'm sure that
TangoDUD will have hundreds of e-mails before it is over, or shall I say, I
hope he will have hundreds of direct e-mails that will demonstrate to him,
his disrespect of Tango. This will be my last statement on this subject. I
won't even bother to open another e-mail of a known liar.
Randy Pittman
P.S. Proud to give my name to what I have to say. No Cowards in this house.
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:13:18 -0600
From: Raul Martinez <raulmart @MACOL.NET>
Subject: Re: "Tango Argentino"
> We did not enjoy
>the singers very much. They are probably all famous to some on this list,
>and I mean no disrespect, but every song seemed to register only one
>emotion - great, angst ridden passion, dialed up to the pain-threshold
>level.... a little nuance would go a long way here, in my opinion. Our
>seats were close to the front, and some of these ladies looked really scary
>in their stage make-up.......
I saw Tango Argentino in BsAs and although I liked the singers very much,
I thought that they would not play well in front of a non-Spanish
speaking audience. Perhaps the writer knows Spanish. The "angst-ridden"
interpretation is one of the great traditions of tango singing that
deserved to be included in the show. But it doesn't translate well, if at
all.
If you want to hear contrasting styles of female tango singers, I
recommend Susana Rinaldi (who has a beautiful clear voice and is an
exponent of the non-angst ridden style), and Adriana Varela, who has the
deepest female voice I've ever heard, and who interprets the song
Goyeneche style. I like both very much, each being unique in her own way.
Raul Martinez
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 02:27:51 EST
From: Randy Pittman <MailAlive @AOL.COM>
Subject: MINGO PUGLIESE'S FAMOUS QUOTE
Hola Milongueros y Tangueras
I was reminiscing fome of my TANGO-L favorites. I ran across this onei
believe is very appropriate at this time.
In a taped interview with master Mingo Pugliese in 1997 and later published
in California in El Firulete, Mingo speaks of RESPECT.
[QUOTE]
In spite of the fact that I may or may not like the way they dance. there are
three persons that I respect very much and that I don't allow anybody to talk
bad about them. One of them is Juan Carlos Copes, the other one is Eduardo
Arquimbau and the third is Virulazo. I will never allow anybody to talk bad
about them. I reiterate, whether I like or don't
like the way they dance, that is personal, these are three individuals that
the whole world must respect, because they were the only ones that when
nobody cared about the Tango anymore, they continued fighting for the Tango,
working for the Tango, sometimes dancing for free, for little money, or for a
meal. That kind of people we have to respect because everybody else,
including me, around 1958-59, deserted the Tango and Tango began to
disappear. Actually, many invent things like the military proscribed or
prohibited the Tango. That is a lie. What happened is that because of the
continuos stage of siege and martial law that the country was in, there was a
prohibition for people to meet or gather in groups. To give a party or to
celebrate a wedding you had to have a (police) permit so eventually people
stop dancing everything,
Tango, rock and roll, boogie-boogie, tarantella, etc. But, never, never,
ever any military government issued a decree to prohibit the Tango.
[END OF QUOTE]
I believe that says it all,nothing needs to be added.
Tango Forever
Randy Pittman
End of TANGO-L Digest - 20 Dec 1999 to 21 Dec 1999 (#1999-97)
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